Soldato
I'm more reserved than i used to be.
I will buy nothing less than 2 5xxxX2 of course.
Edit: not reserved enough, thanks to the other conversation £60,000 total in mincabs.
Got to learn to drive.
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58XX pricing rumour :-(
- Thread starter straxusii
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I'm more reserved than i used to be.
I will buy nothing less than 2 5xxxX2 of course.
Edit: not reserved enough, thanks to the other conversation £60,000 total in mincabs.
Got to learn to drive.
X2`s dont scale as good as 2x 5870 singles
thats what im getting anyway, use to have the 4870x2s and they wherent that great at scaleing.
Soldato
X2`s dont scale as good as 2x 5870 singles
I know.
I found 3way to be the best ratio between diminishing returns & the need for power.
But i don't want 3 singles or X2 & single.
I got lucky with the 3870 sapphires as they were single hight.
Soldato
I think maybe one of these would be ok for now on my 22" monitor, saying that my cards still run everything i play fine.
Maybe worth upgrading to a single fastest card, then i may get another when prices settle.. or just wait for a refresh.
Maybe worth upgrading to a single fastest card, then i may get another when prices settle.. or just wait for a refresh.
Soldato
I wouldn't be surprised to see the cards for around £300 to be honest. They are the first ever DX11 cards, with no competition. Do you REALLY think ATI will pass on this chance for easy profit?
Associate
It's not just that. If supply is limited, as is to be expected from a new product launch, then it makes sense to charge more and drop the price as supply relaxes (though being careful not to annoy early adopters). Afterall, if you're going to sell out of your first run immediately you might as well get as much as you can for it - that is how capitalism works.
Associate
interesting reading in some of the posts above.
FWIW
At launch if ati have no competition and performance bests Nvidia's best efforts they would be crazy not to charge a premium for these new GPU's.
Considering the rumours / facts about 40nm production supply may be constricted to begin with.
Higher price = more profit - volume is irrelevant if you can't supply or demand isn't immediately there...
Early adopters will ALWAYS pay more for new best tech.
Companies don't launch a product without a plan for pricing over the life of the product.
When NV launch there new GPU's ATI will be able to respond to NV pricing - if NV launch at a higher price without bringing more to the table ATI will be able to leave there price alone of even raise it a little. If NV are competetive ATI will have the opportunity to lower there price to restore it's value.
TBH I could go on with this for ages but i'm knackered. My advice is buy two 4890's / 275 now for fantastic 1920 x 1200 performance, wait and see if DX11 games appear a la crysis and if you actually want to buy them and by which time competition / supply & demand etc should mean dx11 gpu's are worth buying for the majority of us.
well put, didn't realise I'd spent 25 mins farting around whilst writing my post!
FWIW
At launch if ati have no competition and performance bests Nvidia's best efforts they would be crazy not to charge a premium for these new GPU's.
Considering the rumours / facts about 40nm production supply may be constricted to begin with.
Higher price = more profit - volume is irrelevant if you can't supply or demand isn't immediately there...
Early adopters will ALWAYS pay more for new best tech.
Companies don't launch a product without a plan for pricing over the life of the product.
When NV launch there new GPU's ATI will be able to respond to NV pricing - if NV launch at a higher price without bringing more to the table ATI will be able to leave there price alone of even raise it a little. If NV are competetive ATI will have the opportunity to lower there price to restore it's value.
TBH I could go on with this for ages but i'm knackered. My advice is buy two 4890's / 275 now for fantastic 1920 x 1200 performance, wait and see if DX11 games appear a la crysis and if you actually want to buy them and by which time competition / supply & demand etc should mean dx11 gpu's are worth buying for the majority of us.
well put, didn't realise I'd spent 25 mins farting around whilst writing my post!
Soldato
Very true mate.
Not sure if its the done thing to quote yourself from earlier in the same thread but I think we are starting to go round in circles.
Soldato
Unless they aren't giving away the top card, which I'd doubt then these pricing rumours aren't true.
Pre release ain't it great all the speculation all the rumours and not a damn clue if were even in the ballpark with any of it. I can see a plus side for ati leaking supposed high prices and then releasing them at same as 4xxx series cards. Apart from some early release gouging on prices which undoubtedly some retailors will do there will be some as there always are that don't gouge and they will be the one's that win out in this as while a lot of people are happy to pay a premium paying it so you can have something a few days earlier is daft.
Associate
Im not upset you are.
You don't seem to understand that it didn't need explaining to me.
It was not a formal post to Retailers & ATI requesting those prices.
I didn't ask for an explanation as i already know how the market works. i was not born yesterday
What price they will come in at is not upto me.
I was not boasting as i don't normally talk about my extravagant life until the need arise as to clarify your misunderstanding about afford & willing.
I'm not upset about ATi`s pricing, im just not willing to pay more for that product.
replacing a fridge with a dent, leave everything on 24/7 etc is what im willing to pay for as its my freewill set by me just as what im willing to pay for an ATI card is down to me as im not forced to buy it. So there is no contradiction.
What makes you think I'm upset about you? infact it was far from that
As I mentioned earlier, how you spend your money is up to you and I respect that.
As for able to afford/not able to afford and willing/not willing; that's not my concern, what I'm saying is, people are still too naive with the prices and still taking rumours so seriously. You buy or not buy will not have any impact whatsoever to these companies, unless majority shares the same view as you do.
Needless to say, yes I too know how the market works having been a keen follower on all the latest gadgets and gears. I agree with your other comment, yes you do need to learn to drive and spend money on a car rather than paying extortionate prices for cabs. Then again, finding parking space is a pain in London.
Anyways back to topic.
Yes with Nvidia falling behind on the challenge to be the best top end gpu manufacturer and without proper DX11 support, it gives way for ATi to come in and raise their price tags over theirs. Afterall, they are offering a brand new product with DX11 support and comparible if not better performance than the GTX 295s.
At this point in time DX11 is nothing but a gimmick and ATi's marketing ploy.
It is doubtful that these cards will run to its full potential as there are simply no games out with DX11 support.
Shamefully, most of the popular titles are still running on DX9.
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It's not competition that drives the price in such a manor as you seem to think though.
As has already been mentioned, ATi are still competing with nVidia regardless of the cards they have out.
They're competing for marketshare. Product competition is only one aspect of competition between competing companies.
ATi, according to your theory could have released the 3800s and 4800s at far higher prices and still sold well.
Did they? They didn't and there's no reason they should do so now.
ATi/AMD was to maximise their marketshare, and now would be a great opportunity to do so.
There is no nVidia alternative, they could stand to claw back a large amount of the market if they price their cards good.
As for performance relative to price, that's also not true.
The 3870X2 is roughly the same speed as a 4850, yet the 4850s released at $199 + VAT ( I paid £120 each for my 4850s).
So that's the same performance as a 3870X2 for less than half the price the 3870X2 was going for.
As I keep having to repeat, there are very good reasons why I'm saying the things I am.
There are examples of ATi doing what I'm saying I expect them to do again.
Some people are pulling numbers out of their ass on here because they don't understand how the market works.
The very fact that people are STILL saying 'they'll price it as high as they can' is an example that they don't know what they're talking about.
With Leejd being a qualified accountant, and also agreeing with my views on the situation, I'm not qualified, but I like to think I have a lot of common sense, so for a qualified account to tell me that I've got it spot on says to me even more that people are making it up as they go along.
This isn't about me being right, it's about using your brain when you make conclusions, and if you don't understand how the sale of products works then don't make outrageous claims that have no substance to them.
I had the SAME conversations with people about the 4800s, they were calling me foolish and overly optimistic, it's not about optimism it's about what makes the most sense.
I got called a nutter for stating that I thought ATi's 4800s would be $199 and $299.
Turns out I was right about that. Not becuase I'm 'right' as such or that I predicted it, but I made an observation of the situation and came to a sensible conclusion.
What ATi's recommended retail price is, and what retailers sell at are a different matter.
The point I'm arguing is that it makes no sense for ATi to set their prices higher this time around as more money per card doesn't mean huge profits.
Also, not every retailer price gouges. I know of a few that don't.
People were buying 4850s for sub £120 on release, so it shows while some places to gouge, if you look around you'll get your stuff at the correct price.
I'm not quite sure how being a qualified accountant adds any specific validity to any views on this subject...
He's obviously going to be used to dealing with numbers in such away.
Accountants can have an impact on the way a business runs itself.
The account at the place I worked at last had a large influence over how the organisation was ran due to his superior knowledge of such matters.
True they have a lot to do with financial data and have to have a good knowledge of business models/practises to be able to give any substantiated assurance... but unless hes worked directly with the organisation in question I don't see it as being anything more than slightly more considered speculation.
EDIT: And I'm tired so might be making less sense than normal...
EDIT: And I'm tired so might be making less sense than normal...
Anyhow generally its a gamble undercutting a bigger competitior to increase market share if it turns into a price war 9/10 the smaller one is gonna end up pricing themselves out the market - as a generalisation of a 2 player market as intel doesn't really have much clout in this case. ATI has played the game well recently keeping the prices competitve and keen, staying on the front foot without over-reaching themselves... dropping prices as your suggesting at this point just to increase market share would be unnecessarily exposing themselves and doesn't make good business sense and I don't see ATI doing it out of kindness. From a business perspective it makes far more sense to play the numers I was suggesting as it leaves you a bigger margin to fall back into when the other side strikes back and leaves the competition less maneuvering space.
Thing he was agreeing with though was that it makes more sense to sell a larger amount of cards with a lower margin than sell not so many with high margins.
That doesn't take working in the exact sector to understand.
Whilst you say it's speculation, What I'm saying has a lot more substance to it than what most other people are saying in terms of them having outrageous prices.
They are undoubtedly taking numbers out if the air and saying 'I think it'll be this, for no reason other than I do'.
Surely you can understand that the conclusions that I and others who share the same viewpoint as I do have far more weight to them than made up figures?
ATi has a pricing scheme in place that it's stuck to for some time now. They've made announcements that this is their structure.
They don't want to release cards upwards of $550, so where does that leave the rest of the cards?
The most logical conclusion is that $550 is reserved for their X2 cards, so around about half of that will be their 'half an X2' card.
The numbers speak for themselves. We already know they like the price points of $199 and $299 for their mainstream highend.
To bring any other numbers in to the equation is 100% speculation with no substance to it what so ever.
A massive point that a lot of people aren't able to grasp is that the price an you or I pays for the card is irrelevant to how well they will do, as we're enthusiasts and more likely to spend more.
What matters is the price points they sell them at, not how much they sell them for.
They completely understand the market that they're aiming for.
They've chose these numbers for this very reason.
R&D costs are sunk, they're a cost that's not going to be 'recouped' in a sense.
Once R&D is done the money is spent, what the focus then leads to is making sure the cards cost as little as possible to manufacture while selling a load of them.
That's the only way they recover R&D costs as well as making a profit.
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