58XX pricing rumour :-(

TheGamingGeneral · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:05

I think that is pushing it, I still believe £249 launch day price, settling down thereafter for the 5870.

Although, remember for a time, all be it, indirectly, the 5870 will be the high end card on the market. We all know they release the *850s and *870s around the same time with an X2 following. But until that time, the 5870 will serve as there high end card so there is scope for gouging. Especially if its quicker than a GTX 295.

If they charge that much though then I, and I bet most will wait for the Nvidia cards, at the very least so they can balance out the market, even if you didnt intend on an Nvidia card.

TAC4U · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:06

LoadsaMoney said:
£280's a cracking price imo

It really depends on the performance. If you're looking at 80-100% improvement then—yeah—it's pretty decent. But if you're talking 50-60% then it's obviously much less impressive.

Lightnix · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:14

Rroff said:
When was the last time you saw a company operate on the ideal of making profit off the sale of a larger number of items at a lower price? in reality it doesn't work out so well... you end up running very tight margins - it might work in the short term or for smaller companies - but no large company wants to operate for any length of time exposed like that - a lot of the potential gains are absorbed by the higher operating overheads - and if your not careful a dodgy batch or a high return rate can wipe you out.

As I said before there seems to be a lot of naive ideals being put forward that simply don't exist in the world of business.

Uh, have you heard of this company called Wal-mart by any chance? Y'know, the world's largest public corporation and all that, which was founded on exactly those ideals.

Rroff · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:20

There is the exceptions to every rule

My friends company works on similiar principles and just about gets away with it... but a lot of companies couldn't.

D13 · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:29

I remember when 4870 x2 was released they could be had for about 350 quid and a single 4870 about 200-220 I think, if they could match that I would be impressed.

Final8y · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:31

Lightnix said:
Uh, have you heard of this company called Wal-mart by any chance? Y'know, the world's largest public corporation and all that, which was founded on exactly those ideals.

The company i work for has the same philosophy.
The firm i work for doesn't do anything that much better or worse than the others in the field, we just do it cheaper for the same quality.

Rather make lets say £200,000 a month from 20 jobs than another firm charging £200,000 for 10 jobs but does not have those 10 jobs because of the climate, go bust & the customers have moved over to the the firm i work for & even without the climate other firms were feeling the squeeze before hand because of the competitive prices from the firm i work for.

But we do a hell of allot of jobs for the money & that's the key is that we always get allot of jobs because of the price so if there are any jobs to be done the chances are it will be done by us.
The crunch has made little difference as there was always more work than what could be handled thrown at the firm.

98p · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:35

Price seems ok for a brand new card, is that From or up to ?

tdream · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:38

4850 MSRP $199 now $99 (newegg)
4870 MSRP $299 now $126 (newegg)
4890 MSRP $249 now $189 (newegg)

So I can see

5850 MSRP $299
5870 MSRP $399

as more of an extension to ATi's range than an outright replacement, until Nvidia answer back with the GT300. Then we'll see a fall in prices.

Lightnix · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:39

tdream said:
4850 MSRP $199 now $99 (newegg)
4870 MSRP $299 now $126 (newegg)
4890 MSRP $249 now $189 (newegg)

So I can see

5850 MSRP $299
5870 MSRP $399

as more of an extension to ATi's range than an outright replacement, until Nvidia answer back with the GT300. Then we'll see a fall in prices.

That doesn't make sense in context because ATi are supposed to be bringing in RV830 which should be more or less as powerful as the 4800 range but be much cheaper to produce.

madindehead · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:40

Why don't we just wait and see what they actually retail at? Instead of speculating on what they will cost. ATI are alone in having DX11 cards right now, so you can expect them to charge a bit more than normal. Most of the people who really want a DX11 card the day they come out, will buy one anyway, regardless of the price. ATI aren't stupid. They know these will sell, so they can afford to work in a little price hike.

tdream · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:43

Lightnix said:
That doesn't make sense in context because ATi are supposed to be bringing in RV830 which should be more or less as powerful as the 4800 range but be much cheaper to produce.

It can make sense if the RV830 obseletes the 4 series and takes over at the same price point.

madindehead said:
Why don't we just wait and see what they actually retail at? Instead of speculating on what they will cost. ATI are alone in having DX11 cards right now, so you can expect them to charge a bit more than normal. Most of the people who really want a DX11 card the day they come out, will buy one anyway, regardless of the price. ATI aren't stupid. They know these will sell, so they can afford to work in a little price hike.

This is the 58XX pricing rumours thread... if you don't want to discuss then, you know where to go.

ray liotta · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:45

I seriously can't be bothered reading whole thread, i read first page, seems guy who started thread was a Nvidia fanboy????

So is the 5870 really costing nearly £300 :confused:

If so..............fjdjhdshfjkhskj you ATI :mad:

drunkenmaster · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:48

straxusii said:
I hope you are right and that ATI agree with you but I don't, I think ATI will make more money selling the 5870 for £285 at launch rather than £225.

Yup, but you're simply wrong

Theres a reason they dropped the prices, because they make more money, Nvidia are selling more also since they dropped their prices, however the parts cost so much they aren't making a decent profit.

Very VERY few people can afford to spend, or more like, are willing to spend £300+ on a card every year, they'll likely spend that every 3 years max, hell the majority wouldn't spend that every 5 years. But lets say one guy buys a £350 card at a £200 profit every 3 years. However, drop that card to maybe £180, and make a £80 profit, but assume its the same performance, the same guy is likely to buy a new card every single year, meaning 3 cards at £80 profit over the same period, meaning on that same guy, they've made £240 profit instead of £200. But by being £180 instead of £350, they also sell 5 times the volume to others who won't ever buy a £350 card.

its an exponential scale, and its the same for ANY product in the world. Cars, 50million buy £10k or less cars, 10,000 buy car for £80k +. 200million a year buy a fridge/freezer for £400, 1million buy ones that are £2k, but you'd also sell 100million fridges at £600.

The simple fact is, in any industry volume at smaller profits is where every single company in the world makes their money, high end enthusiast products sell the least and make next to no money.

its also far cheaper to design and build, and support with warranty a card aimed at being 85% of the performance they can achieve, going for the very best and faster requires more cost start to finish and fail more often and require more expensive parts.

Again the proof is in whats already happened, the 280gtx was £400, the 260GTX was £300, the 4870 beat the 260gtx(or was very close) and they could easily have sold it at £280 and sold quite a lot, but they sold more pricing it at £180.

=VTA=MANFACE · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:50

5870 = £260

5850 = £190

tdream · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:50

ray liotta said:
I seriously can't be bothered reading whole thread, i read first page, seems guy who started thread was a Nvidia fanboy????

So is the 5870 really costing nearly £300

If so..............fjdjhdshfjkhskj you ATI

So lets say the card is as powerful as 295

$399 converted at todays exchange rate £0.61=$1 equals £244 * VAT = £280 so for 295 performance, single card, new tech, DX11, it's not too bad.

AND most people think it will be lower than this.

Final8y · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:51

Well the must haves are going to rush in no matter what so the price will settle down later.

tdream · 2 Sep 2009 at 18:56

drunkenmaster said:
Yup, but you're simply wrong

Theres a reason they dropped the prices, because they make more money, Nvidia are selling more also since they dropped their prices, however the parts cost so much they aren't making a decent profit.

Very VERY few people can afford to spend, or more like, are willing to spend £300+ on a card every year, they'll likely spend that every 3 years max, hell the majority wouldn't spend that every 5 years. But lets say one guy buys a £350 card at a £200 profit every 3 years. However, drop that card to maybe £180, and make a £80 profit, but assume its the same performance, the same guy is likely to buy a new card every single year, meaning 3 cards at £80 profit over the same period, meaning on that same guy, they've made £240 profit instead of £200. But by being £180 instead of £350, they also sell 5 times the volume to others who won't ever buy a £350 card.

its an exponential scale, and its the same for ANY product in the world. Cars, 50million buy £10k or less cars, 10,000 buy car for £80k +. 200million a year buy a fridge/freezer for £400, 1million buy ones that are £2k, but you'd also sell 100million fridges at £600.

The simple fact is, in any industry volume at smaller profits is where every single company in the world makes their money, high end enthusiast products sell the least and make next to no money.

its also far cheaper to design and build, and support with warranty a card aimed at being 85% of the performance they can achieve, going for the very best and faster requires more cost start to finish and fail more often and require more expensive parts.

Again the proof is in whats already happened, the 280gtx was £400, the 260GTX was £300, the 4870 beat the 260gtx(or was very close) and they could easily have sold it at £280 and sold quite a lot, but they sold more pricing it at £180.

My recent history since the 8800 GTX

8800GTX - best card for ages! no question
8800GTS 512Mb - not as good as GTX
8800GT SLI - too problematic in crysis, small buffer
4870 Xfire - decent, sold it
9800GTX+ - for other computer, problematic, manufacturing defects
GTX285 - just as good as 8800GTX, expensive.

I guess I am a bit of a graphics nut.

ray liotta · 2 Sep 2009 at 19:26

tdream said:
So lets say the card is as powerful as 295

$399 converted at todays exchange rate £0.61=$1 equals £244 * VAT = £280 so for 295 performance, single card, new tech, DX11, it's not too bad.

AND most people think it will be lower than this.

Still too much, i can except £250, but nearly £300 on a graphics card alone is not good for us people that are building a system from scratch.

A system costing around £1100 is now looking around £1250

Looks like i will be holding off if price true, im very very diappointed, i was hoping ATI would not do a Nvidia.

Man they could sell these like golden tickets if priced around "230 and they on par with Nvidia gtx 295.

No one would have a reason to buy Nvidia card.

Come on ATI, might right move

fizzle-187 · 2 Sep 2009 at 19:28

skippy2421 said:
when's the first batch of DX11 games due? because you might as well wait for these before you buy and hopefully prices may of dropped by then

Sometime next year, Dirt 2 Is DX11 which is out in november/december i think.

fizzle-187 · 2 Sep 2009 at 19:31

Final8y said:
£350-£400 would be my absolute limit that i'm willing to pay for a 5xxX2.
£225-£275 would be my absolute limit that i'm willing to pay for a highend 5xxx.
£175-£200 would be my absolute limit that i'm willing to pay for a midend 5xxx
£100-140 would be my absolute limit that i'm willing to pay for a lowedend 5xxx

At launch.

You're crazy I would not even spend that much.