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76 trans children at one school

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by G-MAN2004, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Angilion

    Man of Honour

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    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Earlier for me as I'm older, but yes. Children act out roles. It's part of determining who you are and/or it's just playing. On the same line, many people cross gender lines without pretending to be a different sex. That's extremely common, especially in childhood, even in societies with pretty strong gendered roles. The rather cringeworthy song "Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen" comes to mind. That was written in 1961 but reflects social norms from the late 1940s and 1950s (since the character in the song was born in 1945). Or my sister, who was into playing with cars and climbing trees and suchlike.

    Yes, because they haven't yet been wholly indoctrinated into gendered roles and sexist stereotyping. They're allowed more freedom to be a person rather than a role...for a while.

    Which is why any well organised ideology seeking power targets children. The saying "Give me a child until he is 7 and I will give you the man" is attributed in various forms to various people, but it's well known because it contains a lot of truth. Dawkins is quite right to describe it as "sinister", too. It's brainwashing.

    I very much have an issue with deliberately obfuscating the difference between sex and gender, though, and that's a big issue here. There's a hell of a difference between transgender and transexual.

    I also very much have an issue with gender roles, sexist stereotyping and all that. That's also a big issue here because trans activism is pretty much entirely based on those things in a very extreme way. In a way it's an internally consistent conclusion to the currently very fashionable belief that a person's sex defines them in every way, that it's their identity. If a person's sex is their identity, the thing that determines what they do, say, think and feel, then it does follow that what a person does, says, thinks and feels determines their sex. This is why I get some amusement out of the conflict between TRAs and WRAs/feminists - feminists created this utterly sexist idea and made it dominant in order to gain power and promote sexism. It's definitely funny to see them being beaten at the sordid political game they created, using their own tactics against them.
     
  2. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,023

    Saw this on the next video after watching the clip of the ITV interview of the Tramadol smuggler from the other thread:

    Some women self identified as men to attend a male swimming session as a protest:

     
  3. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

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    That's the Man Friday mob, mostly RadFems. I'm not sure it doesn't make things worse. They're trying to highlight issues of men entering women's spaces which is fair enough, but it's not like men trying to have a private swim or get changed in their own changing rooms are the ones invading women's spaces. It's really just escalating things. RadFems tend to see "Men" as some homogenous block that can be addressed as an identity. I'm not even convinced it's a good equivalence aside from the gross-misdirection of targetting. I've no doubt some men would be discomfited by a woman entering the men's changing room - and they have every right to single-sex spaces the same as women. But on the whole, a lone woman entering male changing rooms would be regarded with bemusement or banter. An adult male entering a women's changing room typically makes people feel threatened. Generalisation of course, but a recognizable one, I feel.

    Anyway, I get the point they're trying to make but harassing perfectly innocent men doesn't strike me as a good way to go about it. They're more likely to just normalize mixed spaces which is the exact opposite of what they want to achieve. I mean logically, they're TRYING to make men uncomfortable because they think a backlash will ensure. These are typically the sort of women who go on about "patriarchy" all the time so they think men are this unified power block that will suddenly be provoked into using its unlimited social dominance to enforce single-sex spaces.
     
  4. dowie

    Caporegime

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    Posts: 38,023

    Yeah I hope none of the regular swimmers otherwise minding their own business felt harassed by it, if they can do it respectfully then I guess it draws attention to a potentially odd quirk of self identifying as whatever you like. I suspect, given what she has said, that most of them were simply bemused by it. I wouldn't have any complaints if I turned up for a men's swimming session (not that I attend any) and a couple of women identifying as men jumped in for a topless swim too, it is still predominantly the male swimming session but that week it has an amusing addition to it.

    Granted most trans people probably try to conform to gender stereotypes more than the gender they're identifying as and though they might not go the whole hog re: mutilating genitals etc.. some hormones and some surgery to enlarge or reduce breasts is quite common so the trans person on the program has a point too re: the trans man with a beard going into women's toilets.

    There is plenty of potential for farce in the case of say transgender people who don't with to undergo any medical treatment and/or who don't "pass" very well as their chosen gender VS someone who is just taking the Mickey or protesting or perhaps is a perv of some description etc...

    I think we're going to have to see more gender neutral replacements for things like toilets and changing rooms etc... after all there are apparently multiple genders these days anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  5. Schlong&Stable

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 27, 2013

    Posts: 3,906

    Gender is a fiction. Biological sex is all that matters. You cannot change your sex. If you're born male you are male throughout your life.
     
  6. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,258

    Most young Boys will do this at some point. Not because they are suffering some sort of gender identity crisis.

    Simply because Children learn by imitation and will tend to copy their Mothers, at least when they are younger.

    I can vaguely remember tottering around the house in my Mums high heels and smearing lippy all over my face.

    But really, It really meant nothing more than simply copying Mum.

    I also used to crawl around on all fours, bark, and share the Dog basket with the family Staffie. :D (Who was completely devoted to me and followed me wherever went), I shudder to think what would have happened to me had any of the current batch of child shrinks got hold of me back in the early 60's! :p :eek:


    I would probabally have been identified as a transgender Canine!

    :D
     
  7. antijoke

    Caporegime

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    You would be identified as a furry. :D
     
  8. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

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    [​IMG]
    (Just kidding).

    You mean like this guy? :D

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...er-dog-transgender-man-identifies-canine.html

    (Warning - this link contains nothing graphic yet may still make you feel queasy.)
     
  9. G-MAN2004

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 4, 2004

    Posts: 29,189

    That's what I don't get. If I refer to a transwoman as a man (which I wouldn't anyway because that I'm not that much of a knob :p), they'll say I'm wrong because sex and gender is different. Then if I say, well I was referring to your biological sex to begin with, they'll say that's not allowed. You're forced into using gender whether you like it or not.
     
  10. h4rm0ny

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    Well, that's Good Essentialism vs. Bad Essentialism.

    [​IMG]

    (N.b. the limbic nucleus thing above isn't consistent with being trans, it's just for humour purposes).
     
  11. Strife212

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 15, 2007

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    You can get hormone replacement therapy which after a while for all intents and purposes changes your sex, other than reproductively.
     
  12. Angilion

    Man of Honour

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    I go with the "it's a duck" approach as a matter of practicality. If someone is physiologically close enough to one sex, I'll count them as that sex. You can significantly change your physiology with modern medicine. I consider that close enough to count. It's surprisingly hard to really nail down an accurate definition of sex, so we're approximating anyway. I'll just be a bit slacker with the approximation.

    If you think that's wrong, just try nailing down a definition of "male" and "female" that's accurate in all cases. You can't use genotype because genotype isn't phenotype. You can't use reproductive functionality unless you're willing to classify everyone who's infertile as neuter. You can't use primary sexual organs unless you're willing to class everyone without any as neuter. So what can you use?

    Gender isn't entirely a fiction, but the bits that aren't are trends and thus shouldn't be considered to apply to any individual. Height is the most obvious example of gender that's real - there really is a tendency for men to be taller than women so height really is gendered.
     
  13. h4rm0ny

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    It can give you a micro-penis, breasts and render you infertile, but you're still going to have male hips, facial structure, etc. Or going the opposite direction it can give you a scruffy moustache and an aggressive temperament but you'll still need a mastectomy to remove the breasts.

    There's surgery that can shave facial bones, remove breasts or replace your penis with a surgical wound that you're going to have to dilate with a ***** every day for the rest of your life to stop it from healing over. You might think that this is different if you start young enough (pre-puberty) but in some ways that can actually make things worse. For example, trans cause celebre Jazz Jennings is a boy who had his puberty blocked and treated with hormones early on. He will never be able to have even the sort of wound-vagina adult transitioners can have because his penis never developed and there's not enough tissue available to make it out of.

    You can sort of physically transition and as medical science progresses it'll become more advanced. But we're not yet really able to change birth-sex and, perhaps more to the point, most adult trans people don't actually intend to physically transition all the way. I think something like 80% of MtF trans people have and don't tend to remove their penis. Transexuals are only one group of trans people, which has been taken over recently and become something of an umbrella term.
     
  14. h4rm0ny

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  15. h4rm0ny

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    Four young women who were trans and then detransitioned. Talking about how they got into trans (yes, Tumblr is mentioned). Note that three of the four were taking testosterone for a number of years. Though I think you can tell that, frankly.

    "I had three friends in highschool who were trans for a while and then desisted. And I severed the relationships [when they did]".
     
  16. LabR@t

    Sgarrista

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    severed the relationships ? Why?
     
  17. dowie

    Caporegime

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    Aren't they a subset of transgender people basically? In so far as they generally intend to both change their gender legally (or at least socially) but they also take the further step of having medical procedures in an attempt to conform more to the opposite sex too.

    Granted IIRC that is in dispute, I'm sure I read something where some transexuals rejected the transgender label because they didn't want to be lumped in with non-binary types etc...etc...
     
  18. h4rm0ny

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    Yes on all fronts. Transexual is a medical term and properly speaking it would be someone who attempts to actually biologically change their body to that of the opposite sex, or at minimum intends to. It's a term with more history than the current "trans" identity and I think some transsexuals, as you say, don't like being lumped in with the "sparklequeers" as a lesbian friend of mine refers to them as. They're definitely a minority of male to female trans (about 80% of MtF trans keep and intend to keep their penis).

    See also Intersex who generally aren't being roped in as TRA's obligatory "Look - sex is a spectrum" trophies. TBF, I only actually know one intersex person but they're pretty vocal about it. And you can find statements on AIS support websites (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) saying the same thing. As always, individuals will vary.

    Incidentally, Democrats in the USA are now pushing to reinstate Obama's executive decision that legal sex should be determined by personal decision. Trump overturned it on around day one. Which if nothing else goes to show that legislation should follow actual voting by the two houses, rather than presidential decree if you want it to stick.
     
  19. robgmun

    Capodecina

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    I can honestly say that never happened in my school in the 80s, you would have been resoundingly picked on and teased to hell and back if you did that.
     
  20. Angilion

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    They'd left the cult. Cults always act that way. And yes, I am saying that it's a cult.