Poll: Abortion, Roe v. Wade

[dowie]

US birth rates were dropping since 1950 at least. Correlation is not equal to causation.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/birth-rate

That doesn't negate anything here, referring to some general drop just obfuscates it.

Roe v Wade and American fertility.

OBJECTIVES: This article examines the effect of abortion legalization on fertility rates in the United States. METHODS: Fertility rates were compared over time between states that varied in the timing of abortion legalization. RESULTS: States legalizing ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

OBJECTIVES: This article examines the effect of abortion legalization on fertility rates in the United States. METHODS: Fertility rates were compared over time between states that varied in the timing of abortion legalization. RESULTS: States legalizing abortion experienced a 4% decline in fertility relative to states where the legal status of abortion was unchanged. The relative reductions in births to teens, women more than 35 years of age, non-White women, and unmarried women were considerably larger. If women did not travel between states to obtain an abortion, the estimated impact of abortion legalization on birth rates would be about 11%. CONCLUSIONS: A complete recriminalization of abortion nationwide could result in 440,000 additional births per year. A reversal of the Roe v Wade decision leaving abortion legal in some states would substantially limit this impact because of the extent of travel between states.

If you actually look at some subsets of women, like say African Americans, then you get a much bigger drop too.

edit

And then 20 years after Roe v. Wade there was a huge drop in crime across America… coincidence?

That gets into dodgy territory tho...

 

[Irish_Tom]

That gets into dodgy territory tho...

It’s pretty interesting — anyone who’s read/listened to Freakonomics should be familiar with it:

New Study Claims Abortion is Behind Decrease in Crime

Informing a Smarter World

www.prb.org

Levit and Donohue suggest that abortions could account for anything up to 50% of the drop in crime seen around the mid-1990s. That, and the removal of lead from petrol appears to correlates with a reduction in violent crime…

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Abortion isn't a form of contraception, which is what a large % of terminations are used as. Maybe people should start taking some responsibility for their actions

Do you know a woman that has been though an abortion even at an early stage like 10 week? It isn't a pleasant procedure physically, let alone psychologically and I don't think any women thinks, nah don't put a condom on, I'll just get an abortion in 10 weeks time if I get knocked up.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

And finally, there we have it; people should never have sex unless they want a baby....

Stop living in sin, repent, brimstone and hellfire. Etc

Yep. Welcome to 2022 red America, one step closer to the US version of the Taliban.

 

[rare]

/thread

You're first point especially is spot on. Outside of discussing when the ethical gestation for termination is I can't understand why the issue in general is still such a hot point, the fact it is shines a light on just how much further there is to go on key issues of equality.

It’s a ‘hot point’ because it depends when you consider life to come in to being. If life is from the moment of conception, then the question is fundamental. Do you value human life? Why is human life before birth deemed less valuable or worthy of protection?

 

[ChroniC]

I'm pro choice after birth as well, with the way some of them act when I'm out.

I hold a very very controversial mindset tbh with regard to human life. If its not rare it's not worth protecting, and I include myself in that.

 

[dowie]

It’s pretty interesting — anyone who’s read/listened to Freakonomics should be familiar with it:

New Study Claims Abortion is Behind Decrease in Crime

Informing a Smarter World

www.prb.org

Levit and Donohue suggest that abortions could account for anything up to 50% of the drop in crime seen around the mid-1990s. That, and the removal of lead from petrol appears to correlates with a reduction in violent crime…

Yup, though when this sort of thing gets into "do you know how many abortions black women have, legal abortion is good because we have way fewer black babies" territory then it gets rather dodgy.

To be fair to RBG it's not clear if she's simply referring to the views of the court at that time rather than her personal views but legal abortions being seen as a means to ensure slower population growth in some populations is seemingly a factor in some people's views:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522728837297094657

 

[Irish_Tom]

Yup, though when this sort of thing gets into "do you know how many abortions black women have, legal abortion is good because we have way fewer black babies" territory then it gets rather dodgy.

Even liberal types seem to note additional eugenics type aspects of legal abortion, such as famous former supreme court judge RBG.

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. I hadn’t thought about it from that angle.

 

[Jono8]

I'm pro choice after birth as well, with the way some of them act when I'm out.

I hold a very very controversial mindset tbh with regard to human life. If its not rare it's not worth protecting, and I include myself in that.

I guess what is "rare" is relative. Rare on earth? Nope

Rare in the universe? Quite possibly.

 

[ChroniC]

Well until we can leave the planet. I'd say less is more.

 

[rare]

I'm pro choice after birth as well, with the way some of them act when I'm out.

I hold a very very controversial mindset tbh with regard to human life. If its not rare it's not worth protecting, and I include myself in that.

Sounds like the kind of mindset that led to some of humanities worst atrocities to be honest. Everyone is an individual, all life is worth protecting.

 

[cheesyboy]

I'm pro choice after birth as well, with the way some of them act when I'm out.

I hold a very very controversial mindset tbh with regard to human life. If its not rare it's not worth protecting, and I include myself in that.

Ah, a bonafide misanthrope.

 

[Jono8]

It’s a ‘hot point’ because it depends when you consider life to come in to being. If life is from the moment of conception, then the question is fundamental. Do you value human life? Why is human life before birth deemed less valuable or worthy of protection?

The question isn't quite as fundamental as just that though (even if one does believe life starts at conception). A woman's bodily autonomy comes into play etc.

 

[ChroniC]

Sounds like the kind of mindset that led to some of humanities worst atrocities to be honest. Everyone is an individual, all life is worth protecting.

I'm not all for murdering, but when we have limited resources and a massive global population problem that is growing exponentially, I don't think we should be actively trying to keep the elderly alive till they're in their hundreds, or at the other of the scale, worrying about abortions. Less living is what we need and it's a sadistic but logical way to approach things.

 

[rare]

The question isn't quite as fundamental as just that though (even if one does believe life starts at conception). A woman's bodily autonomy comes into play etc.

Understood, but neither can it be defined as one earlier poster suggested that ‘it’s just a bunch of cells’ therefore it doesn’t matter. What’s the difference between aborting an unborn fetus two weeks before it’s birth, or killing a baby two weeks after? This is precisely why it’s still a hot topic, regardless of why some people may like to think of it otherwise.

 

[rare]

I'm not all for murdering, but when we have limited resources and a massive global population problem that is growing exponentially, I don't think we should be actively trying to keep the elderly alive till they're in their hundreds, or at the other of the scale, worrying about abortions. Less living is what we need and it's a sadistic but logical way to approach things.

The population is on course to decline, not grow. Globally it will likely peak at the end of this century.

If you lose sight of humanity, you better be prepared for the barbarism that comes as a consequence.

 

[cheesyboy]

Understood, but neither can it be defined as one earlier poster suggested that ‘it’s just a bunch of cells’ therefore it doesn’t matter. What’s the difference between aborting an unborn fetus two weeks before it’s birth, or killing a baby two weeks after? This is precisely why it’s still a hot topic, regardless of why some people may like to think of it otherwise.

Most reasonable people would accept a difference between viable and pre-viable abortions. And I don't think anyone would try to call a nearly-full-term pregnancy "a bunch of cells"

 

[rare]

Most reasonable people would accept a difference between viable and pre-viable abortions. And I don't think anyone would try to call a nearly-full-term pregnancy "a bunch of cells"

I would like to think so as well, but nearly 18% in this poll alone supported the concept of abortion up to birth. Like I said, what’s the difference between an ‘abortion’ two weeks before a fetus is born, and the killing of a baby two weeks after its born?

 

[ChroniC]

The population is on course to decline, not grow. Globally it will likely peak at the end of this century.

If you lose sight of humanity, you better be prepared for the barbarism that comes as a consequence.

Are you mad, there's projected to be 9bn by the end of the decade and 11bn by 2050.

Birth rates might be dropping by so is the death rate.

 

[cheesyboy]

I would like to think so as well, but nearly 18% in this poll alone supported the concept of abortion up to birth. Like I said, what’s the difference between an ‘abortion’ two weeks before a fetus is born, and the killing of a baby two weeks after its born?

I think some are clicking that without really understanding it. And perhaps a few are doing so mischievously.