Soldato
How do you guys think Button and Hamilton will do next year ?
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2010, Yas Island Marina Circuit - Race 19/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Wow what a statement - youve condensed Rubens whole Ferrari career and compared it to Massas performance this season. Do I need to remind you that Massa missed out on the WDC two years ago by a point?
Id would compare the Ferrari era Rubens was in to whats happening with Red Bull right now where the general expectation is that they will 1-2 most circuits. MS had the ability and the car underneath to not even need RB - all he did was take points off other drivers and even without RB I cant see MS not getting as many championships as he did with Ferrari - the car was just that good...
I dont disagree that Massa isnt a great driver, but he has been a useful tool to Ferrari in the past. Its very rare for a F1 driver to come back from a near fatal accident and race the same so I wouldnt be so callous to dismiss him and his performances so far...
ps3ud0
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Webber or Kubica. Webber is most unlikely to happen but he's mates with Alonso and Ferrari might be able to tempt him away from the Vettel Racing Squad.
Webber would have to be stupid to move from one heavily favouring team directly to another - we all know Alonso won't play fairly. The only advantage to that move I suppose is you'd probably get a bigger paycheck playing second fiddle at Ferrari than you would Red Bull.
Man of Honour
Flibster said:
Why is the only thing going through my head right now Rob Smedley saying "Fernando, Vitaly is faster than you. Do you understand?"
Caporegime
lol thats evil 
Soldato
Barrichello's entire Ferrari career was with Schumacher in the other car. I'm talking about how Barrichello backed up Schumacher compared to how Massa has, or hasn't, compared to Alonso. Alonso and Massa have only been paired for one season so it wouldn't really work to compare Massa's backing up of Alonso by using all of Massa's Ferrari career, would it?Wow what a statement - youve condensed Rubens whole Ferrari career and compared it to Massas performance this season. Do I need to remind you that Massa missed out on the WDC two years ago by a point?
Id would compare the Ferrari era Rubens was in to whats happening with Red Bull right now where the general expectation is that they will 1-2 most circuits. MS had the ability and the car underneath to not even need RB - all he did was take points off other drivers and even without RB I cant see MS not getting as many championships as he did with Ferrari...
I dont disagree that Massa isnt a great driver, but he has been a useful tool to Ferrari in the past. I dont think I know of any F1 driver thats come back from a near fatal accident and raced the same so I wouldnt be so callous to dismiss him and his performances so far...
ps3ud0
And Massa has had three Ferrari colleagues, all of whom beat him fairly consistently. Kimi turned up and won the title for Ferrari in his first year. Alonso came very close. Schumacher was the obvious king of Ferrari, although Massa did come close to beating him at times towards the end of Schumacher's time at Ferrari. That's probably more that Schumacher was going off the boil than Massa getting faster.
I remember that Massa lost the title by a point. I wanted him to win it. I don't see how its callous to say that Massa's performances this year have been awful. He had the off-season to get ready and a new teammate to match himself against as a motivational tool, and he's passed up the opportunity. What I've been saying is that Ferrari, normally a ruthless team, would have appreciated Massa being faster, more like his old self, so that Alonso had a rear gunner in the same way that Vettel and Hamilton could theoretically have called on.
Soldato
- Joined
- 31 May 2009
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- 21,456
I loled
I had same message for half the race
'Everyone, Fernado is slower than you!'
All Im saying is that Massas only had one season with Alonso after coming back from his injury. Expecting him to be more than an also-ran this season (basically Kova), looking at his career, is high expectations...
When Ferrari have a main driver they seemingly dont really care about how well the second string does - Ive not noticed them being that ruthless when it comes to driver line ups in that respect...
ps3ud0
When Ferrari have a main driver they seemingly dont really care about how well the second string does - Ive not noticed them being that ruthless when it comes to driver line ups in that respect...
ps3ud0
RBR will always back their No.1 driver. This is a strategy which has been tried, tested and proven to work best. If you start backing your No.2 driver, over the No.1, your No.2 driver will sure enough, let you down. MSc/Bennetton/Ferrari used this strategy to crushing effect. McLaren/Hakkinen also won titles using the No.1/No.2 strategy.
The title result today confirms that RBR were 100% correct not to be back Webber. Had they asked Vettel in a previous race (Brazil I think), to let Webber win, Alonso would've been the champion today.
What we saw today was exactly the reason why Webber is No.2 and Vettel is No.1. In a good car, Vettel is able to mix it with the best. Webber, even with a car advantage, is unable to mix it with other top drivers.
If Vettel is 100 points behind Webber, mid way through next season, RBR will still back Vettel as he is perfectly capable of negating that deficit by the end of the season.
I think people on this forum don't realise the difference between No.1 and No.2 drivers.
No.1 drivers are expected to lead the team. They are expected to extract the maximum out of their cars during qualifying and in the race. All the pressure is placed squarely on their shoulders.
No.2 drivers are expected to assist the team in winning in the Constructors Title and to back up their team-leader, when required. In races, if the No.1 drops out, the No.2 driver is expected to take up the slack. No.2 drivers are expected to be steady eddies, who don't take risks, who always bring their car to the finish and who dutifully follow team orders.
At no stage is the No.2 "expected" to win a team the WDC title. If the No.1 driver fails to win the title in a competitive car, this will count against him. If the No.2 fails to win the title in a competitive, it will not count against him. This is why we see Massa still employed, despite being obliterated by Alonso. Had Alonso finished up 100 points behind Massa, he probably would've been sacked.
The best No.2 driver in the business (by far), is without a doubt, Jenson Button. Its been a long time since I've seen a No.2 of his ability. The guy is rock steady and makes zero mistakes, all the while staying a few car lengths behind his team-leader. Barrichello, Ricardo Patrese and Gerhard Berger were also great as No.2 drivers.
For all the extra responsibility and pressure, the No.1 driver is usually paid a significantly higher salary than the No.2 driver.
But Vitaly Petrov wasn't faster than Alonso. Alonso was stuck behind a slower car. That is the nature of this track...it encourages processional racing, as we witnessed today.
When a sportsman is looking to retire, it is quite normal for him to seek out the biggest pay cheque he can, before leaving the sport.
Just got back in after watching it at Tag's on the projector
Well, I'm really annoyed for Webber but I guess Vettel did the job in the end so deserves it. His cry on the radio put us all in stitches, as did Alonso's signal to Petrov (who did great to fend him off all race).
Nice to see Mclaren back up there at the end, but that happened last year and they ended up with a slow car again the following season so just hope they don't this time.
2011 will all be about the tyres and KERS imo.
Well, I'm really annoyed for Webber but I guess Vettel did the job in the end so deserves it. His cry on the radio put us all in stitches, as did Alonso's signal to Petrov (who did great to fend him off all race).
Nice to see Mclaren back up there at the end, but that happened last year and they ended up with a slow car again the following season so just hope they don't this time.
2011 will all be about the tyres and KERS imo.
Soldato
I don't think the Renault was that much slower. It had great traction out of the corners and good straight line speed.
It was very unfortunate that Alonso didn't get passed.
Caporegime
Are any of the new tracks any good? Why they keep using the same designer is beyond me.
Soldato
Grats to Cs Nuts, Red Bull and of course Vettel, he deserves it to be quite honest, since he's been the fastest driver all year and in the fastest car.
You must have got a good bonus for both Championships
PS: Almost missed the race start today because of a power cut. :O
You must have got a good bonus for both Championships
PS: Almost missed the race start today because of a power cut. :O
The cars play a big part in this, too much of the grip is generated from aero and not enough from tyres and weight...
That said there arnt that may of his tracks I rate, Korea was interesting, A1 ring in Austria is a classic (shame its fallen apart now), but the rest are a bit average really... (China being terrible in my view really)
It's just down to money, friendship and safety guide lines, he ensures that all the tracks are definitely safe with big run offs and few race stopping problems... Its good we dont get too many big accidents any more but they do kill the sport a bit.
Oh yeah and a cheers to AcidHell2 for a year of top racing threads
Man of Honour
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- 21 Nov 2004
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Hamilton will do better than Button, but other than that it all depends on the new McLaren. I can see Ferrari coming back strong closely followed by Red Bull. McLaren still seem to struggle with the new regs, although Kers may well give them a large boost initially, given that they are experienced with it and already had a good system in place. Actually, I am surprised they didn't just use it this year anyway and walk away with the championship.
Soldato
About kers for next year, is it a standard part for everyone or do teams have their own kers?
Their own, but could become a standard unit in the future when it matures more. Generally the engine manufacturers will supply them to the teams they supply, bar Cosworth (but those teams may opt for the Williams fly wheel solution if they can afford it).