Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2012, Yas Marina - Race 18/20

McLaren are more than just an F1 team now though. They have the reputation of a road car manufacturer to keep too. They can't just be dragged through the press every weekend.

Whereas Red Bull make an effort to be associated with bonkers mental things, so love a bit if controversy around its F1 team.
 
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...w-as-Lewis-Hamilton-prepares-to-leave-McLaren

^ Full interview. I like the Sky guy asking where the grid slots are coming from next year, which would be a huge concern for Mclaren fans.

Hamilton has had a few poles and Button has been rarely close iirc and Perez is not setting the world alight other than races he shone with great tyre management. Did they really need two of those?

I can't wait for next year to see if Perez is actually the real deal. Mclaren have far more info than me, I'm just not convinced yet. Anyone taking bets on Hamilton outscoring Perez and or Button next year ;)
 
Mclaren are going to struggle hard next year. Above people were saying Vettel above Hamilton because when given a fast car Vettel won a title and Hamilton didn't always.

Realistically, Mclaren hasn't actually had the fastest car this year, at times it has, at others it hasn't. When Red Bull have been in the lead.... they can go 15 seconds out, cruise, absorb safety cars, pull out a 15 second gap again, rinse repeat. when Mclaren had the best car, they are struggling to keep a few second lead and the bad pitstops Hamilton had, frankly if those happened to Red Bull in their strongest races, Vettel would have still come out leading... that has been the biggest difference. Red Bull are stronger when they are strong, and less weak when they are weak.

The only time Hamilton probably had the best car and didn't win was as said, with a actually world class team mate, and he missed the title, by one point, in his rookie season, hardly a poor performance and had the team favoured Hamilton as Vettel has had he'd have won that title(and vice versa if they'd backed Alonso completely).

Without reliability issues, the Mclaren could be the best car of the season, with its reliability problems it isn't close, it isn't even really top 3, had it been, Hamilton would likely be leading the title(not only because he'd have I would think 3 more wins and plenty of other points, but most of them would mean less points for Alonso/Vettel).

Over all, even this year the first decent year from Mclaren in the past 5, it wasn't good enough, and it took incredible drives from Hamilton to get any points in the past several races, and fantastic drives earlier in the season, brilliant qualifying and good overtaking to get other points. We know Button won't compete and it will take a small miracle for Perez to do well next season.

That is based off the general idea that I simply can't see Mclaren having the consistently best car, its been years and the mistakes, and all but this season the just no where near good enough car, I can't see it happening.

You can win a title with a average driver and easily the best car, you can be somewhat competitive with a great driver and a meh car, with a average driver and a meh car.... you're screwed.
 
So now Vettel has the best car? When Alonso was leading it was he that had the best car, think I see a pattern, only when Lewis is leading will it not be in the best car I guess.
 
I think quite clearly for most of the season the McLaren has been the fastest in the dry, it's really struggled in the wet though.

The RBR took the biggest hit with the banning of EBD and it took until Singapore for them to really crack an alternative (although they had a few good races with an *illegal* map half way through the season.

The Ferrari has been the slowest of the three consistently but Alonso made the most of the Ferrari's wet pace while the RBR was struggling without EBD and the McLaren couldn't turn the wet tyres on.

The Ferrari has also been the most reliable car and consistent team, benefitting from McLaren mistakes and reliability issues from both Hamilton and Vettel.

I don't see how you can argue it any other way.
 
dannyjo22 said:
When Hamilton had the fastest car over a season, Alonso was his team mate. They simply took too many points off each other. If a driver of Alonsos ability was in that 2nd Red Bull and allowed to fight for the title Vettel would not have won the title this year, despite probably having the fastest car by the time the season is over.
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Let's be honest here: if a driver of Alonso's ability was in the second Red Bull, Vettel wouldn't even be in contention for the title. Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen and Button would all be crushing him for certain. I also think Rosberg, Perez and Maldonado would be beating him too - we know what Pastor the Disastor can do when he doesn't have to worry about passing people.
 
JeditOjanen said:
Let's be honest here: if a driver of Alonso's ability was in the second Red Bull, Vettel wouldn't even be in contention for the title. Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen and Button would all be crushing him for certain. I also think Rosberg, Perez and Maldonado would be beating him too - we know what Pastor the Disastor can do when he doesn't have to worry about passing people.
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Button? lol no way.
 
JeditOjanen said:
Let's be honest here: if a driver of Alonso's ability was in the second Red Bull, Vettel wouldn't even be in contention for the title. Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen and Button would all be crushing him for certain. I also think Rosberg, Perez and Maldonado would be beating him too - we know what Pastor the Disastor can do when he doesn't have to worry about passing people.
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Bold statement, fact based or just ******* in the wind :)
 
Jono8 said:
Button? lol no way.
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I think he means by virtue of the points Alonso would be taking off his tally. I can't see that Button would be beating him with his points lost this year but at least twice in recent history when Button has pressurised Vettel in a car that was atleast his equal Vettel fell off the road.

I don't think he's anything like as fast as Vettel but he's far better under pressure and makes fewer mistakes and this is in an era of easy to drive cars with the cars well within the limits due to the pacing of runs on the tyre.
 
Sparky-F1 said:
Bold statement, fact based or just ******* in the wind :)
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vettel clearly flatters the redbull if he were in the ferrari or mclaren he would have won the championship by now , lets not forget hos the bull was almost nowhere at the start of the season.
people always like to bring the best down just like they did with msc.

omg hes winning loads he must be in a car full of illegal parts and its all the traction control keeping vettel on the track.

omg he can barely hit an apex :rolleyes:

its funny that even the other drivers have started to drag vettel down now just like senna did with msc.

maybe hamilton can hear the illegal parts rustling in the wind or alonso just knows RBR are cheating
 
Sorry Arknor if I have the wrong person, but wasn't it you last year banging on about Red Bulls wings and running Vettel down?

You seem to have done a complete turnaround?
 
Panzerbjorn said:
I think quite clearly for most of the season the McLaren has been the fastest in the dry, it's really struggled in the wet though.
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I think they struggled particularly in the wet early this season due to the new tyre formulation (which they as a team took a good while to get a handle on).

I dont think this is so much an issue now or for next season (unless Pirelli change the formulation again for 2013)


I cant listen to the sky interview at work, so I will comment on dannyjo's later (although Im not sure there is that much to be concerned about, JB will gain at least one spot most qualifying positions just from LH not being in the same car, and probably in a much more inferior merc, and JB's race pace has never been an issue in the first place).

edit - Im also wondering whether the "risk-averse" comments are saying that in 2013 design McLaren have pushed that bit further than they would normally (admittedly 2013 havent got huge amounts of rule changes, and its 2014 that will make the biggest difference but even so .....)
 
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FrankJH said:
(although Im not sure there is that much to be concerned about, JB will gain at least one spot most qualifying positions just from LH not being in the same car, and probably in a much more inferior merc, and JB's race pace has never been an issue in the first place).
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I will lay it out now, I think Hamilton will still outqualify and be ahead on the grid more times than not even in the inferior Merc :)

Whether it finishes that way on the points table I'm not so sure :)
 
dannyjo22 said:
I will lay it out now, I think Hamilton will still outqualify and be ahead on the grid more times than not even in the inferior Merc :)

Whether it finishes that way on the points table I'm not so sure :)
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He'll out qualify Rosberg, of that I am pretty certain, plus I think he will cause some upset on the grid, by mixing in with the "slower" of the faster cars. I agree that he won't be much of a threat in races.

He certainly has a reputation for being able to drag a poor car round a track, but it remains unclear how much of a dog the Merc is and how comparable Hamilton's pace will be to Schumacher/Rosberg
 
When has Lewis ever dragged a poor car round? The start of 2009? he done nothing special when the car was a dog and just spent even more time ranting down the radio, where is this reputation coming from?
 
Mr Men said:
When has Lewis ever dragged a poor car round? The start of 2009? he done nothing special when the car was a dog and just spent even more time ranting down the radio, where is this reputation coming from?
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most recently a couple of races ago with a rear roll bar failure and astro turf hanging off his car?

finishing the race was impressive, finishing in the points even more, holding off raikkonen for several laps even more still....


and also dealing with excessive tyre wear for most of the race.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I will lay it out now, I think Hamilton will still outqualify and be ahead on the grid more times than not even in the inferior Merc :)

Whether it finishes that way on the points table I'm not so sure :)
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It wouldnt be the first time that cars are much better in quali than in the race

At the end of the day the points table is what counts

(If the Merc is as inferior next year as it has been for the last 2 - 3, you are dreaming lol but then of course yur welcome to do that )
 
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