Advice for DIY install of bathroom and waterproofing walls - can I tile a dot and dabbed wall?

[Buffman]

Any cement based powder adhesive (not plasterboard adhesive) I use ultra tile fix for most of my tiling as they are well priced good products. https://www.protilertools.co.uk/pro...x-sp-rapid-set-flexible-s1-adhesive-grey-20kg

Prime the walls and floor before dabbing/trowling. https://www.protilertools.co.uk/product/ultra-tile-fix-proprimer-advanced-polymer-primer

Cool gonna try order these ASAP would 2x20kg bags of the 1st be fine you think for applying hardibacker and jackoboard (I presume a tiler would get their own preferred adhesive)

Not sure if I should mechanically fix the boards also if the walls are slightly out, I guess that's a bit belt and braces /OTT?

Ive taken the plaster off the walls and found both an air vent and an old window

 

[Buffman]

Normally you put a 'spanker' through the dab into the brick. https://www.tilefixdirect.com/orbry-spanker-universal-insulation-expansion-fixing-anchors-dowels/

To get the walls straight use a long level, dab the boards and push them on and use the level to get them right. You use the dowels once the adhesive has set.

Can't tell if 2 bags are enough really, depends on the area. You also need a mixing paddle to mix this stuff up, you can get drill attachments which are fine.

Cool thanks for prompt response.

Yeah I have a 1.2m long spirit level. Do you think it matters much if the plaster on the wall to the left is very slightly out? Is it just that it makes tiling more difficult?

Aye I'll try work out the adhesives quantities. Yes I happen to have bought a mixing paddle many years ago and never used it (until now!)

 

[Buffman]

A few mm out won't matter, no wall is ever completely level the tiler will just work that out with adhesive.

Aye thats what I thought, you can tell I overthink things! Cheers!

Your responses are really helpful especially with pics.

 

[Buffman]

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/26702949

Read from 1201

cheers, pics dont load though :'( ( old photobucket?)

edit: nvm the latter posts do

 

[Buffman]

These are good but really expensive, I made my own out of scrap timber and lined with backer board.

Aye i just wanted to make sure its leak free so gone for this. Only gone for one as I worked out 2 would be a very tight fit with the current studwork.

@200sols I've now made my order, £700 nearly! Gone for marmox boards for both walls (10mm) and 6mm floors, as the jackoboard alternative was 2 to 3 weeks lead time to order.
For fitting to floor is it advisable to put it on adhesive and also screw it down? It seemed to indicate online only the latter is necessary?


Also got my chipboard floor delivered today. (drove 30mins and realised

 

[Buffman]

The floor will need to be fully set onto the floor I would say from experience of using this stuff.

forgive me, but when you say "fully set onto" do you mean both trowelled with adhesive plus screwed?

6mm marmox? According to the guide you can use adhesive only. You need a floor trowel and I would say you must prime the chipboard well. I have always adhesive and screwed my hardibackers so I have no experience of using marmox on the floor.

Fair enough, as I'm paying a lot for materials I'd rather take time and make sure its done properly. On that basis I'll probably glue and screw it in.

Unfortunately my plumber to finish off a very small length of pipework has been a no show today!

 

[Buffman]

Why do you need it on the floor? UFH

This sounds dumb but I only put it on floor as I presumed it is necessary to tile (rather than tile straight onto waterproof chipboard sheets)

 

[Buffman]

Yeah that makes sense. just need it solid between the floor and marmox, if the boards are screwed down then a thin set of adhesive should be enough assuming the floor is solid

aye I'll just screw it in with 20 or 25mm screws anyways to be sure. I need to not go beyond the boards + adhesive + chipboard as there is loads of pipes and cables through the bathroom!

 

[Buffman]

You'll need washers to screw these boards down as well. The chipboard should also be screwed not nailed to the joists. Basically just ensure there is no flex in the chipboard floor before overlaying the marmox.

Aye the chipboard will be screwed down with these
https://www.screwfix.com/p/spax-wir...Dr2fosSX3Kkh0b27EMwaAo44EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

The marmox I will screw down with washers also, but thanks for the reminder. I bought a box of 100 of the metal ones (hopefully 100 enough!)

 

[Buffman]

Why those double thread? Plain shank sure ware better to clamp the floor down? Don't really understand those.

I think cement boards are going to be better for the floor tbh.

I believe the flooring screws are good to stop squeeking in flooring. the chipboard I was going to glue and screw to the floor.

out of interest in what way do you think cement boards would be better?

 

[Buffman]

you arent going to squeek when its all tiled

Try bending marmox and then try bending a tile board and youll have the answer. marmox isnt stable alone, it will dent if you kneel on it for example.

I think marmox will work but needs a solid adhesive base

Fair enough! I was going to hardie backer it, but it wasnt available from this supplier so I thought might as well order it all in one. I ordered an 8mm tile trowel also so here's hoping it works OK once I adhesive & screw it down.

 

[Buffman]

do people normally put waterproof boards (e.g. marmox / hardie backer etc) underneath the bath? presumably not as under the bath wont be tiled?

Realise I will need to also board the wall adajacent my toilet/ radiator as the plaster seems blown so presumably tilers wouldnt want to tile onto it.

 

[Buffman]

It isnt needed with Marmox. The weight of the bath when full would crush marmox boards.

ah cool, thanks!

My plumbers actually turned up today(as well as sparky - first fix done. So I can make a start of the flooring tomorrow after I've knocked out some plaster..

 

[Buffman]

Does chipboard flooring need noggins put in if it is layed perpendicular to joists? e.g. I intend to lay 18mm 2.4mlong sheets across 400mm centre joists? In some sections the joists are even closer together than 400mm centres. The 2.4m long sheets are 600mm wide and I'm reading differing opinions on wether you need noggins every 600mm. I will be gluiing and screwing the floor.

@200sols any thoughts? @Maccapacca

Currently the floor seems rather sturdy with standard floorboards (where they havent been ripped up by sparkies/plumbers) , thus I would anticipate that it'll be OK without noggins?

To be honest because the floor is so full of pipework and cables I probably wont even be able to fit noggins in.

The tiles will be layed on a decoupling membrane ontop of the 18mm floor. I wont need any joints on the 600mm end and only require 4 sheets


Edit: The below seems to suggest the butt joints should be on noggings (at perimeters!), thus I only need to apply to perimeters i.e. board 1 and board 4 on the long edges - I think I can work to apply in that fashion

https://nhbc-standards.co.uk/6-supe...d-concrete-upper-floors/6-4-19-floor-decking/

 

[Buffman]

PS, this is the third room I've tiled - and while doing them I've developed my own technique that allows me to achieve a decent result.

I think tiling looks much better if the top row is a full tile and perfectly straight - however as an inexperienced DIYer, millimetre correct measuring isn't my strong point. So I start at the top. All it takes is a bit of patience, allowing each row 15 minutes to 'grab' before moving to the next one.

Interesting! I have one of those props from lidl. Not really used it much.

As I'll be getting a tiler in, i dont have that to worry about doing it but I would just go the mathematical route!

Before anyone highlights it yes its a hell of a maze of pipework and cables, there's also 7 different RSJs connected to this small bathroom

My electrician has changed all Junction boxes to maintenance free boxes as they are no longer going to be accessible when under chipboard (also above the flanged web of a steel so completely inaccessible from the underside also!)


Today I spent all day:

• Knocking off plaster on wall nearest my bedroom
• Remortaring bricks which had slipped when presumably previous RSJs put in
• Taking up floor (took a while!)
• Knocking a support in for a new joist which was meant to support previous joist - the connection to steelwork had either come out or not been knocked in
• Making noggin supports for old pipework which was completely unsupported
• Putting in sound insulation (don't want to hear flush noises from upstairs to kitchen below)

Pipe hangers



That much coring of a steel... Why would anyone let that happen! (put in 8 years ago..)

 

[Buffman]

400m is fine.

What do you mean? Fine as in you don't need noggins at the permineter if 400mm centred joists? I suspect the joists are going to be fairly secure as it's a very short span and supported by RSJs at multiple points

 

[Buffman]

400mm with noggins, I just checked one of my old pics and they had noggins around the perimeter must've been put in by the house builders.

Cool thanks, I shall fit the noggins!

How do you find the Grohe built in toilet by the way? Are you concerend for if/when it requires replacement/fixing?

Considering looking into them. All I need to buy still is the toilet, sink and the pick the tiles.

 

[Buffman]

If I could offer another snippit of advice without being ridiculed, I've found it very useful marking out where pipes and cables are sited underneath floorboards by drawing the pipes on the floorboard and adding the depth in cm to them.

So far I've managed to avoid drilling into anything vital as a result.

Aye ive done similar for other rooms.

Really I should do a build log for other rooms in the house, currently have a plasterer sorting out another room back from bricks

All of the usual cistern stuff is replaceable through the front panel. Personally prefer the built in look, much cleaner lines.

OK cool thanks for the tips, I'll have to have a look on amazon at them, is soil pipe height / depth/ position the main criteria I'll need to measure before buying? (I'm sorting stuff out today then away on holiday for a week so will take measurements with me)

 

[Buffman]

I tend to want all the best kit and fanciest tiles, and the bathroom is 3.5m X 3.5m and I'd want it tiled floor to ceiling, level access shower tray, decent valves etc.

Could easily run to £25k around here.

Aye i live in Stratford also, I imagine more like 15k.
I'm doing the tanking, Unit fitting etc myself but got a load of plumbing /electrical done with the rest of the house renovation and will be getting a seperate tiler in for this job.

For me the priority was a good finish and bathrooms is always a bit of a mixed bag.

 

[Buffman]

First 2.4mx600mm board in (18mm chipboard d5 grade)

Took ages to get in, make cuts for pipework and mark up all the underneath pipework (this is an in progress photo and not final... With them all
)

I put in 3 screws along the 600mm length (spax 60mm flooring screws) , glued the underside with d5 glue


Only need to put in 2 full sized boards and one half sized, but also need to put in a load of noggins one end.