Alcohol and ability to consent

Haggisman said:
Sober man and drunk woman have sex, she regrets it, cries rape - man = guilty (this I agree with).
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Wut ? If she consented then woke up with regret and filed a rape charge, that's not rape. That's just sex with regret. :confused:

I've slept with the odd munter thanks to beer goggles and awoke with deep regret. I just jump in a taxi and try and forget the last 12 hours happened. I certainly don't go to the police and cry rape !
 
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Sliver said:
Wut ? If she consented then woke up with regret and filed a rape charge, that's not rape. That's just sex with regret. :confused:
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Because if you're sober and they're not, you should have the sense to realise they may not be making sensible and educated decisions, and the decency to not take advantage of that fact.

However, this should be gender neutral.

Edit: I'm talking about where the drunk person is obviously not capable of looking after themselves and when you ask if they "fancy a ****" they respond with something incoherent, not where you go out for a couple of drinks and both unambiguously agree to it.

Essentially, don't take advantage of someone vulnerable, or it might come back to haunt you...
 
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This is another example of an excuse to avoid responsibility for something, seems to be a common theme in society today. :(
 
Haggisman said:
Because if you're sober and they're not, you should have the sense to realise they may not be making sensible and educated decisions, and the decency to not take advantage of that fact.

However, this should be gender neutral.
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How do you define sober ? 1 drink ? 3 drinks ? 6 drinks ? 10 drinks ? If she appears lucid enough to be up for sex and consents then it's sex. Even if she awakes the next day with regret. Just like the part of my post you failed to quote which gave a male perspective to regret. Here I'll slap it in for you :

Sliver said:
I've slept with the odd munter thanks to beer goggles and awoke with deep regret. I just jump in a taxi and try and forget the last 12 hours happened. I certainly don't go to the police and cry rape !
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It's not a black and whit area. I know a guy who spent 4 months in prison on a rape charge and then got cleared in court when the 'vicitim' admitted she consented after a few drinks and only cried rape because they fell out in the morning after a petty argument. So I'm quite the sceptic about rape claims.
 
Sliver said:
It's not a black and whit area. I know a guy who spent 4 months in prison on a rape charge and then got cleared in court when the 'vicitim' admitted she consented after a few drinks and only cried rape because they fell out in the morning after a petty argument. So I'm quite the sceptic about rape claims.
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Dat cross section though
 
Haggisman said:
You don't need to be convicted for an accusation of rape to ruin your life. If you work in a school for example, and your colleagues/boss, or even worse one of the parents, were to find out you'd been accused of rape, do you think they would wait and see if you were actually convicted before you lost your job?

Even if it wasn't somewhere as sensitive as a school, how many employers do you actually think would continue to employ a rapist*


* After all, there's no smoke without fire, and as evidence by many previous threads on here, most people believe that even a not-guilty result means you did it, there just wasn't enough evidence to prove it.
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And you don't need someone to be convicted for being raped to ruin your life. It happens for the 90% or so (less the small fraction of false claims ofc)
of reported cases not resulting in a conviction.

Haggisman said:
The problem is, other than having independent witnesses, it's impossible to a) prove consent, and b) prove that the person was mentally fit to give consent

The only foolproof solution I can really see is designated "sex booths" where you both have to sign in, and sign out (witnessed by someone), after being breathalised.
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Well, we work on a legal system of "beyond reasonable doubt" for guilty verdicts. It's going to be hard to prove guilt even with a stronger alcohol guidance.

Haggisman said:
That's great, except those laws are heavily weighted against men - hardly justice.
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Excepting the vast majority of reported cases not resulting in a conviction, you mean?
 
cheesyboy said:
Avoiding responsibility for being raped?

The society we live in eh!
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No avoiding responsibility for getting drunk in the first place and then using it as a get out or save face when you realise you have made a mistake!

Not talking about true cases of drunken rape, but hey keep reading between the lines and assuming if you wish.
 
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Sliver said:
How do you define sober ?
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0 drinks, hence the second bullet point...

Sliver said:
Just like the part of my post you failed to quote which gave a male perspective to regret.
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That's not a "male" perspective, that's a Sliver perspective, and it's extremely arrogant to assume that every male on the planet shares that perspective.

Sliver said:
Here I'll slap it in for you
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Not unless I consent you wont! :p
 
Haggisman said:
0 drinks, hence the second bullet point...
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Don't be silly. You can have one drink and still be sober. :rolleyes:

Haggisman said:
That's not a "male" perspective, that's a Sliver perspective, and it's extremely arrogant to assume that every male on the planet shares that perspective.
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Don't be silly. It was a perspective I advocated as a male, at no point did I infer ALL males shared it. :rolleyes:
 
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I have no sympathy for men who get accused of having sex with drunk women. You should know that you are taking a huge risk and as such deal with the responsibility. I have never slept with an intoxicated woman because i know what the outcome can be if she cries rape.
 
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Sliver said:
Don't be silly. You can have one drink and still be sober. :rolleyes:
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That depends on your definition.

Since the law doesn't really operate in shades of grey, it would make sense for the definition to be used in this case to be that of no alcohol.

Sliver said:
Don't be silly. It was a perspective I advocated as a male, at no point did I infer ALL males shared it. :rolleyes:
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Imply.

And you stated it was a male perspective, implying the fact that you had that perspective due to being a male.
 
Drunkness isn't really tangible, I could drink 6 pints one day and be fine, do the same the next day and be thoroughly potato'd, there are so many contributing factors.

Any law implemented around people being inebriated would have to be very carefully written to avoid punishing people who don't deserve to be punished.
 
This is a daft idea.

If I can see a woman is heavily intoxicated and I am sober, I'd probably not want to bed her. But there is a whole spectrum of intoxication and its not always possible to tell where someone is on it. Equally I might be drunk myself, which would impair my ability to make a judgement on their level of intoxication!

What this will do is make innocent men into criminals. It will also make women less responsible for their own actions.

cheesyboy said:
Avoiding responsibility for being raped?

The society we live in eh!
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We all have a responsibility to minimise our risk of being a victim of crime. We don't live in some Utopian society.

This doesn't make the attacker any less responsible for their crime.
 
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Thompson_NCL said:
We all have a responsibility to minimise our risk of being a victim of crime. We don't live in some Utopian society.

This doesn't make the attacker any less responsible for their crime.
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As I posted a little while ago, ain't someone's fault if they get burgled but I bet cheesyboy still locks his doors and windows.

Bet he doesn't walk down the middle of a road in peak traffic.

Wouldn't walk into a group of black men and make whip cracking noises.

Would wear a hard hat on a building site.

Everyone should be responsible for maximising their own safety and minimising risks.
 
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