Soldato
Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set
- Thread starter NVP
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And yet we have statements from staff on this set that she was dangerous.
She literally promotes herself as being Thell Reeds daughter. She's playing on the family link, so nepotism seems a very apt call.
It gets even worse, on top of the scathing criticism from the local 44 member (which I understand is not a national union but one local to California) there is this allegation, which perhaps explains the live round being present - literally a live round not just some blank being called "live" in Hollywood speak...
https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-used-off-set-target-practice/
So the 24-year-old armourer was letting crew members plink targets with the firearms off set??? I mean you can safely use the same weapon for live range work and for firing blanks in an exercise, the British Army and other militaries do that all the time... though they'll tend to have considered some safety issues with working with firearms and people using them will have been trained and would adhere to some basic safety precautions/procedures.
Certainly leaving firearms lying around unattended off set and loaded with live rounds isn't ideal on the part of the armourer, picking up one of said firearms and then handing it to an actor on set while claiming it is a "cold gun" or whatever (something which you don't know/haven't checked) isn't ideal on the part of the assistant director and then just cracking on without inspecting the firearm and actually aiming it at someone when pulling the trigger (especially after previous incidents on the very same set) isn't ideal on the part of the star actor who's also the EP and whose own production company is in charge of the whole thing.
Call me crazy but that all seems to be a total farce, but no doubt people like Jono can argue that I'm right or wrong on the basis of whether Baldwin or Reed or the AD actually get charged - nothing I've said is conditional on that. Him (or indeed the AD or armourer) not being charged doens't negate that they don't share some blame. I suspect there will be a civil suit here/out of court settlement etc..
That would be you, you chose to quote my posts and argue with points I'd raised, you then diverted to making some arguments about whether or not Baldwin gets charged when nothing I said is dependent on that.
Note you're now just posturing instead of dealing with what I've posted. If you don't like my takes then that's one thing, if you're trying to construct some argument by pretending I've argued something else then that's just weak.... as per usual. If you want to carry on then feel free to quote an actual argument I've made and take issue with it, otherwise, it's just noise.
I pointed that out too remember, albeit not the shagging part.
Here is her social media - noting both her sex and who she is related to, not just an armourer but a "female armourer" and daughter or [well-known person in the industry]:
Given the latter that's probably had a bigger effect here... or do you think it's usual for unconnected 24-year-olds out of their depth to be given "head of" type roles on movies with A list actors like this? Some shortage of people who want to work in Hollywood?
https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-used-off-set-target-practice/
So the 24-year-old armourer was letting crew members plink targets with the firearms off set??? I mean you can safely use the same weapon for live range work and for firing blanks in an exercise, the British Army and other militaries do that all the time... though they'll tend to have considered some safety issues with working with firearms and people using them will have been trained and would adhere to some basic safety precautions/procedures.
Certainly leaving firearms lying around unattended off set and loaded with live rounds isn't ideal on the part of the armourer, picking up one of said firearms and then handing it to an actor on set while claiming it is a "cold gun" or whatever (something which you don't know/haven't checked) isn't ideal on the part of the assistant director and then just cracking on without inspecting the firearm and actually aiming it at someone when pulling the trigger (especially after previous incidents on the very same set) isn't ideal on the part of the star actor who's also the EP and whose own production company is in charge of the whole thing.
Call me crazy but that all seems to be a total farce, but no doubt people like Jono can argue that I'm right or wrong on the basis of whether Baldwin or Reed or the AD actually get charged - nothing I've said is conditional on that. Him (or indeed the AD or armourer) not being charged doens't negate that they don't share some blame. I suspect there will be a civil suit here/out of court settlement etc..
Imagine spending all this time arguing (badly) about this, and not even understanding what the argument was about.
That would be you, you chose to quote my posts and argue with points I'd raised, you then diverted to making some arguments about whether or not Baldwin gets charged when nothing I said is dependent on that.
Note you're now just posturing instead of dealing with what I've posted. If you don't like my takes then that's one thing, if you're trying to construct some argument by pretending I've argued something else then that's just weak.... as per usual. If you want to carry on then feel free to quote an actual argument I've made and take issue with it, otherwise, it's just noise.
I pointed that out too remember, albeit not the shagging part.
Here is her social media - noting both her sex and who she is related to, not just an armourer but a "female armourer" and daughter or [well-known person in the industry]:
Given the latter that's probably had a bigger effect here... or do you think it's usual for unconnected 24-year-olds out of their depth to be given "head of" type roles on movies with A list actors like this? Some shortage of people who want to work in Hollywood?
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It was from a podcast a month ago when she talked about her previous film with Nicholas Cage where she had this role for the first time! It seems this is her second time in a head armourer role.
Letting the crew use the same firearms for shooting off live rounds in the desert not her fault? Allowing firearms to be left unattended and loaded with live ammunition, not her fault?
If only there was some person on set whose job it was to look after these fire arms, some sort of armourer perhaps?
Yeah, he's to blame too - AFAIK checking it is her job too but he wasn't passed the weapon by her he apparently just picked it up.
Yup, he did and he was at fault for claiming something he couldn't have claimed. Baldwin also skipped checking it too + aimed it at a cinematographer who he then killed (no need for him to do that at all) and super experienced 24-year-old head armourer Hannah shouldn't have had firearms with live round left about the place to begin with!
Soldato
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- 13 May 2003
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Yes but what I can’t necessarily do is check the valve is locked or the switch breaker open. Also if you were a member of my working party where I was responsible you wouldn’t even necessarily see the document. I’m putting you to work I have to ensure you work safely. I accept it’s not the same industry but if you told me that Alec was in my working party and was following my commands I wouldn’t be expecting him to personally check the documents or isolations/controls.
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They hadn't seen her check the gun and all actors have a right to ask for the gun to be checked in front of them. To quote them "We didn’t see her check it, we didn’t know if something got in the barrel or not,” one source said. Sounds to me like someone was just being careful and rightly so rather then she did anything wrong.
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They stepped in because she loaded it on the ground. Thats wrong.
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Americans are allowed to and like playing with guns (and accidents happen), starts more arguments and sends shock waves through the Overclocker's GD forum... 
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You hit on it perfectly there with if I were a member of your working party.
You do the checks because the people working for you are at risk. Alec should have checked because those he dangerously pointed the gun at were at risk.
Soldato
She was putting blanks in a gun on the ground where there was pebbles(what a moron. Even I don't do that).
And she already had 2 miss firings
So that's 2 films with loads of mistakes.
She should never be around guns again.
He shouldn't even have pointed it at them tbh... it's not like they were actors in a scene even. I don't get this notion from some that it's somehow beyond Alec (not an armourer) to check the weapon but it's simultaneously totally on the AD (also not an armourer) to do so. The armourer AFAIK should have been present too and anyone on set can (and really should) check weapons when taking possession of them - both the AD and Alec could have and really (IMO) should have done so.
NSPs are so simple, take a few seconds and would have established immediately whether this firearm was indeed "cold". It just seems so alien to me that people are comfortable simply handling and pulling the trigger on a firearm they believe to be unloaded or "cold" without seeing for themselves what state it is in.
If that's true as the direct quotes say they didn't see her check it. So they didn't see her check it but watched her check it on the ground? Which is it? There seems to be a lot of conflicting information around and the media seem to be taking information out of context and reposting it to paint a picture that isn't 100% accurate.
As for Alec there is a report he draw the gun, nothing happened put it back in the holster and then on the 2nd draw it went off so he could have checked it thinking it was clear. Also its not Alec's job to check the gun. The safety rules on set said the last person to check the gun is the director. There is a procedure to follow and chain of people checking the gun which didn't have Alec as part of that chain. Alec was following correct procedure for that set. The fault lies with the multiple people before him as those are the ones that broke procedure. Alex was following the correct procedure from what I am seeing. The safety procedure signed off and being used did not state he should check the gun they stated the last person to check the gun is the director.
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You don't point a weapon at someone. It's that simple. He had no reason at all to point that gun in her direction.
Soldato
@dowie you are taking “facts” from the gossip magazine TMZ. What’s next The Sunday Sport says woman who loaded gun is really an alien.
Soldato
It'll be interesting who gets charged and with what.
Which facts are coming from TMZ?
Multiple outlets are reporting what Dowie is saying.
Soldato
Tbf this might actually be a news story where TMZ is better placed to find out what happened than more 'respectable' media outlets, given they focus on celebrity gossip etc and probably have contacts in the right places.
Here is her social media - noting both her sex and who she is related to, not just an armourer but a "female armourer" and daughter or [well-known person in the industry]:
Given the latter that's probably had a bigger effect here... or do you think it's usual for unconnected 24-year-olds out of their depth to be given "head of" type roles on movies with A list actors like this? Some shortage of people who want to work in Hollywood?
Interesting. I had no idea who Thell Reed was until I saw his IMDb page. A lot of big films he was in charge of for the armoury.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715715/
How do you know that? What if he was practicing his scene which required him to point the gun from that spot he was in towards that direction? Actors do point guns at people its there job, its what they have to do as part of the job. Anyway I am not saying he is blameless only that in this case its not his job to check if the gun was safe. He was following procedure which has the director as the last person in the chain to check the gun. We cannot blame Alec for following the heath and safety procedure set in place for checking if the gun was loaded.
All indications are the main fault lies with the director who was cutting corners, skipping checks, shouting out false information that the gun is clear. It also sounds like the armourer wasn't present and that the director took the gun without checking or speaking to the armourer, then skipped his check which is the procedure put in place to stop this happening, then shouted out to Alec.
If the director didn't break procedure and did his job of being the last stage in the check of the gun this wouldn't have happened. The accident happened because the director broke the rules. Alec didn't break the rules in regard's to loading the gun.