Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

Roar87 said:
It's funny how the people who are most "anti-gun" also seem to be the one's defending the seemingly lax attitude taken towards firearms on set, it's almost as if they have no clue about firearms in general and form opinions out of ignorance and lack of education.
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Almost seems the case doesn't it...

I'll point out though that I'm massively anti-gun but I'm also condemning their behaviour on set.
 
Seems like the Armourer was vastly under qualified and then with what seems like an AD who didnt take gun checks too seriously, it was an accident waiting to happen

On the set of ‘Rust' where the accident happened, the head armorer was Hannah Gutierrez Reed, a 24-year-old former model and daughter of Thell Reed, one of the most famous Hollywood armorer's. Last month she went on the Voices of the West podcast and she told them:

"Originally, I had planned on working with cameras, or I really like lighting, too. I wanted to do DP work. I kind of just tried [armorer work] with dad one time, and then I noticed I had a really natural knack for it, growing up around guns my whole life."

Before she signed on to work on the set of ‘Rust' she had only worked as an armourer once, on the set of ‘The Old Way' with Nicolas Cage, and she admitted that she had no idea how to put blanks in weapons:

"I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job. Doing it, it went really smoothly. I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like ‘oh, I don’t know anything about it'."


In this quote alone we already know she's a liar, because it didn't go “really smoothly”. On the set of that film, she gave an unchecked weapon to Ryan Kiera Armstrong, an 11-year-old actress, forcing the crew to intervene and production to halt briefly. A source told the Daily Beast:

She was reloading the gun on the ground, where there were pebbles and stuff. We didn’t see her check it, we didn’t know if something got in the barrel or not.
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Bold is my emphasis
 
Greebo said:
Seems like the Armourer was vastly under qualified and then with what seems like an AD who didnt take gun checks too seriously, it was an accident waiting to happen



Bold is my emphasis
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Multiple people, including myself, pointed that out very early on in the thread. It was questioned just how she got the job with so little experience.
 
Greebo said:
Seems like the Armourer was vastly under qualified and then with what seems like an AD who didnt take gun checks too seriously, it was an accident waiting to happen



Bold is my emphasis
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That wasn't the armourer's fault because the eleven year old actress should have checked the ammo herself. Amirite?

But seriously, it sounds as though the requirements for being a professional armourer on set were either breached, or simply aren't strong enough if you can get the job without being a real life expert in guns and weapon safety.
 
Mr Badger said:
That wasn't the armourer's fault because the eleven year old actress should have checked the ammo herself. Amirite?

But seriously, it sounds as though the requirements for being a professional armourer on set were either breached, or simply aren't strong enough if you can get the job without being a real life expert in guns and weapon safety.
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Would suggest the rules for getting a job as an armourer are way too slack. The Nicholas cage film prior to this was her first film ever as an Armourer and she admitted in interview she had never handled blanks before.

Is there any qualifications needed in the US to be an armourer on a film or could I just send my cv in and get offered the job?
 
Jono8 said:
No one in this thread has defended a lax attitude towards firearms.

Some of us have the capability to recognise how the set up of a movie set has different rules and protocols in relation to firearms, instead of making hilarious comments that have no place in the context of a film set, like: "you never point a gun at anyone ever!" because that's what they were taught at the first day of gun camp.
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No, guns need to be treated as deadly weapons at all times because they are, the consequences of not doing so is unintended death
 
Dis86 said:
Multiple people, including myself, pointed that out very early on in the thread. It was questioned just how she got the job with so little experience.
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Yup, indeed, same quote in fact but some of the naive just carry on as though an accident with firearms/taking safety seriously is something that can only be realised in hindsight.
 
dowie said:
Yup, indeed, same quote in fact but some of the naive just carry on as though an accident with firearms/taking safety seriously is something that can only be realised in hindsight.
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I mean it's not as if there's some sort of precedent in people accidentally being killed and injured by mishandling firearms. Nope. Nosiree.
 
Dis86 said:
Indeed. It must have been her expansive cv and unparalleled experience though.
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Definitely hired on merit - no nepotism or diversity hiring for this person with "female armourer" and reference to her well-respected movie industry dad on her social media profile...
 
Jono8 said:
They are filming a movie for goodness sake! There have probably been seventy billion scenes shot for film and tv by now where an actor is aiming a real life firearm at someone.

Of course never aiming a firearm at someone is very good practice in the real world. It isn't however practical in the context of a western action movie.
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From the emerging reports it would seem that this set was not typical; I would have thought a film featuring Baldwin - could afford realistic replicas and cgi?

If this is how films are made over there- hopefully this tragedy will force change.

I personally have no experience with fire arms - but thought it was a given that you would not be waving one around.

out of interest- would you stand in front of Baldwin while he was practicing his draw?
 
Greebo said:
Would suggest the rules for getting a job as an armourer are way too slack. The Nicholas cage film prior to this was her first film ever as an Armourer and she admitted in interview she had never handled blanks before.

Is there any qualifications needed in the US to be an armourer on a film or could I just send my cv in and get offered the job?
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I've watched Paul Harrell and hickok45 on YouTube and so am probably just as qualified!

dowie said:
Definitely hired on merit - no nepotism or diversity hiring for this person with "female armourer" and reference to her well-respected movie industry dad on her social media profile...
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Why does this have to be a woke culture war thing for you? Maybe the rules on who can be an armourer are too slack or maybe she lied about her experience or qualifications. It's hardly the first time someone (regardless of their sex) has got a job through family connections rather than by being the right/best candidate.
 
Mr Badger said:
Why does this have to be a woke culture war thing for you? Maybe the rules on who can be an armourer are too slack or maybe she lied about her experience or qualifications. It's hardly the first time someone (regardless of their sex) has got a job through family connections rather than by being the right/best candidate.
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Hence why nepotism was also a listed option...however given her age her lack of experience was all too clear. As would a quick check of her social media profiles reveal.
 
Mr Badger said:
Why does this have to be a woke culture war thing for you? Maybe the rules on who can be an armourer are too slack or maybe she lied about her experience or qualifications. It's hardly the first time someone (regardless of their sex) has got a job through family connections rather than by being the right/best candidate.
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I didn't say it did have to be, perhaps she was hired completely on her own merit even... are we not allowed to speculate or discuss things Mr Badger?
 
Hmm more updates here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...errez-says-no-idea-live-rounds-came-from.html
'David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds.

'He advised he should have checked them all but didn't and couldn't recall if she spun the drum,' the search warrant says.

Baldwin was handed the gun and it fired in the direction of Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza. Hutchins died and Souza was hospitalized.

Afterwards, Halls brought the gun back to Gutierrez-Reed and told her to open it for him.

The warrant also describes how Hannah Gutierrez-Reed described there never being 'any live rounds' on set.

'Hannah advised that she checked the 'dummies' and ensured "they were not hot rounds".

'She said as the crew broke for lunch, the firearms were taken back and secured inside a safe on a prop truck on set.

'During lunch, she said the ammo was left on a cart on the set and not secured.

'After lunch, [property manager] Sarah Zachary pulled the firearms out of the safe inside the truck and handed them to her.

'She advised there are only a few people that have access and the combination to the safe.

'Hannah advised that she handed the gun to Alec Baldwin a couple of times, and also handed it to David Halls. Hannah said no live ammo is ever kept on set.'
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I guess the checking she did of the rounds was before the break for lunch?

Still seems like error is more than likely but someone earlier in the thread did suggest some tampering and that, I guess, is possible even if still seemingly less likely.

Also as there was a bit of discussion about how a weapon could be checked - it was here, only the armourer apparently only showed the AD three of the rounds in the drum, which they describe as being marked as dummies... If only either the AD had wanted to check all of them or indeed the actor had said "show me", or indeed the armourer had checked them all to begin with.
 
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