Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

Tell you what, let's see sources for all of these facts of yours.

1, she has multiple films where she's worked as an armorer or in any way with firearm control.

2, her university degree in any way supports her work as an armorer.

3, she has 8+ years experience working on many films.

4, after she admitted she knew sweet f.a. about blanks on a film where she was head armorer that she received training from an expert on them. And I believe that film also had firearms issues.
I asked you for evidence first. Her training with guns by an expert in the field started 8 years ago. She had 2 years at Synthfire media as one example. She worked as Yellowstone Film Ranch not as head armorer but as an armorer loading firearms with appropriately sized blanks. Ensuring gun safety on set along with instructing actors on how to use their guns which is evidence enough to show she has more expreince then you say. She talked about being on set of other films, helping the head armorer, working with the prop master linked to guns e.c.t She has a decent range of expreince over a decent area of film making going over many years. She had years of training by a gun expert.

Anyway as for "In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken."

That's mostly from an official statement signed by two lawyers. So you call an official statement signed by two lawyers absolute rubbish and easy to debunk. Go on then debunked that statement. I am sure the two lawyers will be interested how you can debunk what they say.
 
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@Werewolf her statement was that she "didn't know anything about it" when talking about loading blanks. That's a pretty fundamental part of firearms. It's basically like the pilot in your analogy flying a 747 with having only ever flown a piper chieftain before.
 
The article states this was only her second job as armourer and in her first job (the previous one to this, only a month before) she said in interview that she didnt know how to deal with blanks and hadn't handled them before and there was a serious firearm breach on that job. If that is totally false then I apologise. I took the article in good faith and not completely made up.

The comments about blanks came in a later part of the interview where she was asked about how she had 'apprenticed with' her father.

You can listen to the podcast here - https://voicesofthewest.net/armorer-hannah-reed-9-11-21/ - the bit regarding apprenticing and the comments on blanks starts around 27m20s in.
 
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Not sure how her statement matches up with the crew who left saying there was live ammo on set and people used to use the guns for target practice during downtime.

Either she is trying to cover it up or she genuinely had no idea crew were using the guns without her knowledge for live practice. Either isnt good.

If the "plinking" actually happened and armourer only knew of dummy rounds being on set then who was bringing live rounds on to set without the armourers knowledge?
As you mentioned, it's plausible she (armourer) didn't know about the live rounds as i'm sure the DM article mentioned others having access to the gun safe but does beg the question why others had accessed to the gun safe in the first place.

Either way, it sounds like the whole production was a complete ******* mess :rolleyes:
 
I asked you for evidence first. Her training with guns by an expert in the field started 8 years ago. She had 2 years at Synthfire media as one example. She worked as Yellowstone Film Ranch not as head armorer but as an armorer loading firearms with appropriately sized blanks. Ensuring gun safety on set along with instructing actors on how to use their guns which is evidence enough to show she has more expreince then you say. She talked about being on set of other films, helping the head armorer, working with the prop master linked to guns e.c.t She has a decent range of expreince over a decent area of film making going over many years. She had years of training by a gun expert.

Anyway as for "In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken."

That's from an official statement signed by two lawyers. So you call an official statement signed by two lawyers absolute rubbish and easy to debunk. Go on then debunked that statement. I am sure the two lawyers will be interested how you can debunk what they say.

You've provided no support for your first paragraph at all. At. All.

Her imdb profile is a nice easy source. Her previous film credits that you're so keen to espouse as contributing to her outstanding firearms safety record are as...

Costume assistant for a film called millennium bugs in 2020 and 2022 for The Old Way which is the nick cage movie we know about where she was head armorer. So...she's gone from costume assistant to head armorer in less than a year.

Her Instagram accounts (she has 2) list her as a model, filmmaker and sorry...I was going to link them but she's now deleted her entire social media history! One other key point on them is she literally listed herself as female aemorer and daughter of thell reed. Wonder why she'd do that?

Details from her performance on the old way...

https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/

Her self admittance of lack of experience came during a podcast interview. This was on the 11th of September if you wish to look it up.



As for her lawyers...what, she's not going to do damage control?!
 
His post is well written and includes clear facts that show that there are many factors involved that could easily clear her of any wrong doing. Yours is your usual bitter bile at anyone with any success that reminds you of your lack of success, and if you can rubbish it by trying to excuse their success you do so.

Wow, look how angry you are man
 
Well apart from the fact he's wrong. Sure. But as always keep seeing what you want to see...

You and others suggested she was hired because of "woke". Its not down to anyone to prove this isn't the case, its down to you and the likes of dowie to prove it is why she was hired. If this was a white man you guys wouldn't have even suggested his sex and gender had anything to do with why he got the job. Christ you are so transparent.
 
You and others suggested she was hired because of "woke". Its not down to anyone to prove this isn't the case, its down to you and the likes of dowie to prove it is why she was hired. If this was a white man you guys wouldn't have even suggested his sex and gender had anything to do with why he got the job. Christ you are so transparent.

No, we suggested it was a possibility. We based it upon evidence such as her obvious incompetence, he social media profiles calling herself a female armorer and being the daughter of thell reed. Why mention her gender or dad?
 
You've provided no support for your first paragraph at all. At. All.

Her imdb profile is a nice easy source. Her previous film credits that you're so keen to espouse as contributing to her outstanding firearms safety record are as...

Costume assistant for a film called millennium bugs in 2020 and 2022 for The Old Way which is the nick cage movie we know about where she was head armorer. So...she's gone from costume assistant to head armorer in less than a year.

Her Instagram accounts (she has 2) list her as a model, filmmaker and sorry...I was going to link them but she's now deleted her entire social media history! One other key point on them is she literally listed herself as female aemorer and daughter of thell reed. Wonder why she'd do that?

Details from her performance on the old way...

https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-inexperience-hannah-gutierrez-fired-nicolas-cage-film/

Her self admittance of lack of experience came during a podcast interview. This was on the 11th of September if you wish to look it up.



As for her lawyers...what, she's not going to do damage control?!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FC10L2pUUAgXxzS?format=jpg&name=large

Confirms she was only part time armour and part time another job.
Confirms the prop master also handled the guns.
Confirms the first misfire was not her but the prop master.
Confirms the 2nd incident was not her fault as she informed the stuntmen the weapon was “hot”.
Confirms she fought for staff training, time to prepare weapons e.c.t but was overruled.

Sighed by two lawyers who would not put there name to a false statement.

You called all this absolutely rubbish and easy to debunk. So go on debunk it.

Plus there are tons of people blaming the AD for this incident the same AD that got fired from another job for breaking the firearm rules and who has a history of complaints against him for dangerous handling of weapons. A guy who says he only looked at 3 of the 5 rounds in the gun. He admits he should have checked all rounds.


“Wonder why she'd do that?”
As being under apprenticeship for years by a legendary gunsmith who trained many Hollywood stars and who was at the top of his game is a pretty good thing to put on your CV. Its also good proof that you are wrong about her being completely inexperienced. On top of the training from a highly regarded expert we also know she had multiple jobs with guns far more then the 1 you say.


“Her self admittance of lack of experience came during a podcast interview. This was on the 11th of September if you wish to look it up.”
Where she said she has been misrepresented and misquoted by many parts of the media. Her full quote in regards to moving up to head arrumor ““You know, I was really, really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready but, doing it, like, it went really smoothly." in other word it turned out she was ready and was just nervous about her first time as head role.

She didn’t say she was lacking in experience. She was questioning if she had enough expreince or not like most people do for a promotion. Found one area she was lacking in, got training from an expert then went on to do a really smooth job without problems. Then went onto another armour job which also went really smoothly.

Where is the evidence or her obvious incompetence?
 
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FC10L2pUUAgXxzS?format=jpg&name=large

Confirms she was only part time armour and part time another job.
Confirms the prop master also handled the guns.
Confirms the first misfire was not her but the prop master.
Confirms the 2nd incident was not her fault as she informed the stuntmen the weapon was “hot”.
Confirms she fought for staff training, time to prepare weapons e.c.t but was overruled.

Sighed by two lawyers who would not put there name to a false statement.

You called all this absolutely rubbish and easy to debunk. So go on debunk it.

Plus there are tons of people blaming the AD for this incident the same AD that got fired from another job for breaking the firearm rules and who has a history of complaints against him for dangerous handling of weapons. A guy who says he only looked at 3 of the 5 rounds in the gun. He admits he should have checked all rounds.



As being under apprenticeship for years by a legendary gunsmith who trained many Hollywood stars and who was at the top of his game is a pretty good thing to put on your CV. Its also good proof that you are wrong about her being completely inexperienced. On top of the training from a highly regarded expert we also know she had multiple jobs with guns far more then the 1 you say.



Where she said she has been mispresented and misquoted by many parts of the media. Her full quote in regards to moving up to head arrumor ““You know, I was really, really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready but, doing it, like, it went really smoothly."

She didn’t say she was lacking in experience. She was questioning if she had enough expreince or not like most people do for a promotion. Found one area she was lacking in, got training from an expert then went on to do a really smooth job without problems. Then went onto another armour job which also went really smoothly.

So...you think lawyers never lie, twist facts or are fed incorrect information by clients. Sure. OK. I mean, the statement even has typos. I fail to see how she was only doing the job part time on set has any bearing at all. Its still her responsibility.

So...Citation for her 8 years as an apprentice needed. Just how she managed 8 years between leaving high school, 3 years at uni and now I'm not quite sure of.

As for the podcast, I will say again, she literally says she didn't know how to handle the blanks.

"I kinda just caught on by myself … just observation, watching him do things, or just knowing how the firearms work. I think loading blanks was like the scariest thing to me because I was like, 'Oh, I don't know anything about it,'

That would seem to contradict your 8 years apprenticeship right there.

So still waiting for you to list her mega movie credits as an armorer or head armorer too.
 
No, guns need to be treated as deadly weapons at all times because they are, the consequences of not doing so is unintended death

Correct. Which is why film sets have proper procedures in place and people responsible for them.
 
From the emerging reports it would seem that this set was not typical; I would have thought a film featuring Baldwin - could afford realistic replicas and cgi?

If this is how films are made over there- hopefully this tragedy will force change.

I personally have no experience with fire arms - but thought it was a given that you would not be waving one around.

out of interest- would you stand in front of Baldwin while he was practicing his draw?

Do you even watch TV programs/films?

A colossal amount of them involve actors of all ages waving real guns around and pointing them at people .

Just like many others, you can't seem to appreciate the context by which things can be different under more controlled conditions with people responsible for specific safety precautions. .

Do you shout loudly at the TV and become shocked at how unsafe it is when a motor racing driver drives over 150mph very close to a large crowd of people, because driving over 150mph on a public road is insane?
 
”So...you think lawyers never lie, twist facts or are fed incorrect information by clients. Sure. OK. I mean, the statement even has typos. I fail to see how she was only doing the job part time on set has any bearing at all. Its still her responsibility.”
Not if she was sharing responsibility and she did her side correctly and the other person was the one that broke the rules. Then its not her fault but the other person. As for lawyer statements like this they don’t tend to lie or twist facts as they get scrutinized and sued. Plus, apparently, she has evidence to backup what she said. So if those statements really are true then your viewpoint is entirely wrong.



“That would seem to contradict your 8 years apprenticeship right there.”
That’s because you cannot read I said she started her training with guns 8 years ago not that she spent the entire 8 years training. She has been around and using guns for 8 years.

Your miss quoting her time and time again. Your cherry picking some text and ignoring others to paint a fake narrative. She didn’t know how to load blanks, then went out to get training from an expert. Then went on to be happy with blanks over multiple jobs. I never said she was a veteran expert or that she knows everything. Only that she isn’t as inexperienced and untrained as you are trying to make out. She even says and quotes how happy she was with blanks in later jobs. But you just ignore that and focus on her first time with blanks. Why don't you focus on her later jobs that went well with blanks?

You also just quoted her being on multiple film sets, watching the head armorer work, observation of the role over multiple films, knowing how firearms work. Which is all expreince on top of the training she talks about. Yet at the same time you want to say she has no expreince? So she has hours with the head armorer before doing the role of head armorer. She has multiple jobs as basic none head armorer, she has been trained and used live guns starting 8 years ago. All this adds up to way, way more expreince then your fake narrative of inexperienced. She is not a veteran not by a long shot but at the same time she is not completely new and inexperienced.

From what I can see all this talk from you about diversity hire and inexperienced is nonsense.
 
No, we suggested it was a possibility. We based it upon evidence such as her obvious incompetence, he social media profiles calling herself a female armorer and being the daughter of thell reed. Why mention her gender or dad?

What is wrong with calling herself a female armorer? Maybe there aren't many in the business. As for her dad, from reports he is meant to be one of the very best in the business. If you went to Cambridge and studied physics under Stephen Hawking you'd use that going forward right? Its not her fault her dad is one of the best to study under is it. If he had a son and his son used it would that be a problem? No it wouldn't.
 
Not if she was sharing responsibility and she did her side correctly and the other person was the one that broke the rules. Then its not her fault but the other person. As for lawyer statements like this they don’t tend to lie or twist facts as they get scrutinized and sued. Plus, apparently, she has evidence to backup what she said. So if those statements really are true then your viewpoint is entirely wrong.




That’s because you cannot read I said she started her training with guns 8 years ago not that she spent the entire 8 years training. She has been around and using guns for 8 years.

Your miss quoting her time and time again. Your cherry picking some text and ignoring others to paint a fake narrative. She didn’t know how to load blanks, then went out to get training from an expert. Then went on to be happy with blanks over multiple jobs. I never said she was a veteran expert or that she knows everything. Only that she isn’t as inexperienced and untrained as you are trying to make out. She even says and quotes how happy she was with blanks in later jobs. But you just ignore that and focus on her first time with blanks. Why don't you focus on her later jobs that went well with blanks?

You also just quoted her being on multiple film sets, watching the head armorer work, observation of the role over multiple films, knowing how firearms work. Which is all expreince on top of the training she talks about. Yet at the same time you want to say she has no expreince? So she has hours with the head armorer before doing the role of head armorer. She has multiple jobs as basic none head armorer, she has been trained and used live guns starting 8 years ago. All this adds up to way, way more expreince then your fake narrative of inexperienced. She is not a veteran not by a long shot but at the same time she is not completely new and inexperienced.

From what I can see all this talk from you about diversity hire and inexperienced is nonsense.

Those statements don't contradict my viewpoint at all. There's nothing to state the duties were shared, it states hannah and the prop master gained control over the guns and that she never saw anyone fire live ammo. That implies she lost control of the guns. Just because she never saw something happen doesn't mean she didn't know it happened.

For the film sets, she worked on one other where there was no head armorer. There was no armorer. As far as I'm aware there were no firearms at all. So you're making things up about watching them work. Especially over multiple films. Again.

You've still provided no sources for her 8 years of training or her going and seeking help from an expert after she admitted just last month that she didn't know what she was doing. At least you now concede she said it.


What is wrong with calling herself a female armorer? Maybe there aren't many in the business. As for her dad, from reports he is meant to be one of the very best in the business. If you went to Cambridge and studied physics under Stephen Hawking you'd use that going forward right? Its not her fault her dad is one of the best to study under is it. If he had a son and his son used it would that be a problem? No it wouldn't.

That would still be nepotism, as I highlighted...

As for listing herself as female and you stating there not being many in the business...can you honestly not see what you yourself are saying there? You can't be that thick.
 
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