Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

[Werewolf]

From the emerging reports it would seem that this set was not typical; I would have thought a film featuring Baldwin - could afford realistic replicas and cgi?

A lot of actors (especially older ones) will do work in films with extremely low budgets, either because they're doing it as a favour to someone, or because of things the film may have a number of younger actors/cast from various film schools that the actor may have links to*.

There are countless low budget films with one or two recognisable names, or films that actors have done that are very outside their normal fair that they've either done for a change, or because they think their kids/grandkids would like, let alone the ones where there is a high profile name used in all the marketing but that person is only on screen for a couple of minutes and maybe 3 or 4 lines.

Basically seeing a "big name" involved in a film says nothing about it's budget.


*Some see it as a personal obligation to help newcomers get the same sort of breaks they themselves might have been given, Robert Heinlein used to refer to it as "paying it forward", you help someone with no expectation they'll pay you back, but in the hope they'll do the same to someone else in the future.

 

[Dis86]

so 11 year old girls should be fully trained and experts on weapons and ammo types then?

Why do people like you keep prattling on about being experts? Why is the person's gender of relevance?
As I pointed out at the start, I learned weapon safety as a preteen. I am not an expert. This is very basic safety knowledge.

 

[Pottsey]

Seems like the Armourer was vastly under qualified and then with what seems like an AD who didnt take gun checks too seriously, it was an accident waiting to happenBold is my emphasis

That’s because she is being mispresented and those comments are not from this current job. At this point in her career, she had enough expreince and knows how to load blanks. She was trained by an export in the field on how to load blanks.

“Multiple people, including myself, pointed that out very early on in the thread. It was questioned just how she got the job with so little experience.”

Where it was pointed out you are wrong with facts to point out why, which you just ignored. She had 8+ years expreince with guns and training from an expert in the field working on many films before moving from assistant to full head Armourer. Any talk about diversity hire, lack of expreince, woke, is just a load of nonsense which you are known for.

You know pervious people who worked with her called her a very talented armorer, exceptional, professional yet you skip over that as it doesnt fit into your fake narrative that she is lacking in expreince or only hired because of diversity. As you know she was also trained by a famous expert in the field and had successful films behind her. As you where asked before, given her history what are you basing this lack of expreince on? Why do you keep acting like she is too young when she is not and has more then enough years of expreince? She had more years of training with guns then most soldiers get. Her apprenticeship training started 8 years ago. So that's 8 years of gun history.

In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken.

All the evidence points to her being hired on merit including the quotes provided before.

Indeed. It must have been her expansive cv and unparalleled experience though.

Most likely yes she was hired on her expansive CV and years of expreince along with 4+ years of training by an well known export in the field and quotes from previous people working on films where people where very positive about her calling her talented, exceptional, professional. Its a pretty strong CV.

 

[Dis86]

That’s because she is being mispresented and those comments are not from this current job. At this point in her career, she had enough expreince and knows how to load blanks. She was trained by an export in the field on how to load blanks.




Where it was pointed out you are wrong with facts to point out why, which you just ignored. She had 8+ years expreince with guns and training from an expert in the field working on many films before moving from assistant to full head Armourer. Any talk about diversity hire, lack of expreince, woke, is just a load of nonsense which you are known for.

You know pervious people who worked with her called her a very talented armorer, exceptional, professional yet you skip over that as it doesnt fit into your fake narrative that she is lacking in expreince or only hired because of diversity. As you know she was also trained by a famous expert in the field and had successful films behind her. As you where asked before, given her history what are you basing this lack of expreince on? Why do you keep acting like she is too young when she is not and has more then enough years of expreince? She had more years of training with guns then most soldiers get.

In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken.

All the evidence points to her being hired on merit including the quotes provided before.




Most likely yes she was hired on her expansive CV and years of expreince along with 4+ years of training by an well known export in the field and quotes from previous people working on films where people where very positive about her calling her talented, exceptional, professional. Its a pretty strong CV.

I ignored it, because like this post of yours it was absolute rubbish. Easily debunked by pointing out she doesn't have films behind her. She has a film. 1. Singular. Additionally her own quotes show how she was lacking basic knowledge and quite frankly bricking it.

 

[hurfdurf]

I ignored it, because like this post of yours it was absolute rubbish. Easily debunked by pointing out she doesn't have films behind her. She has a film. 1. Singular. Additionally her own quotes show how she was lacking basic knowledge and quite frankly bricking it.

His post is well written and includes clear facts that show that there are many factors involved that could easily clear her of any wrong doing. Yours is your usual bitter bile at anyone with any success that reminds you of your lack of success, and if you can rubbish it by trying to excuse their success you do so.

 

[Pottsey]

I ignored it, because like this post of yours it was absolute rubbish. Easily debunked by pointing out she doesn't have films behind her. She has a film. 1. Singular. Additionally her own quotes show how she was lacking basic knowledge and quite frankly bricking it.

One film as head armorer, don't tell me you think she has never been on set before and just started out from scratch jumped straight up to head armorer? If you think that then your the one talking absolute rubbish. She talks about her expreince on other films

She has been on other film sets and is a film major from NAU. She has worked at Synthfire media and documentary for 2 years. She also worked as armorer for Yellowstone Film Ranch. “At Yellowstone, she described her duties as, “Loading firearms with appropriately sized blanks. Ensuring gun safety on set along with instructing actors on how to use their guns.” but I guess you want to ignore all that as its debunks your fake narrative she has no expreince and jumped straight up to head armor from nothing. She has years of expreince and years of training.

Being worryed about going from apprenticeship/assistance to your first solo act is perfectly normal. Many people get worryed about a promotion but turn out to be ok. As for lack of knowledge she did the right thing she got training from an export and learnt what she needed to. She had no problems with blanks working as armor at Yellowstone Film Ranch. As her statement says, she has been misrepresented by the media.

EDIT: AS for "In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken."

That's from an official statement. So you call an official statement absolute rubbish and easier debunked. Go on then debunked that statement.

 

[Dis86]

His post is well written and includes clear facts that show that there are many factors involved that could easily clear her of any wrong doing. Yours is your usual bitter bile at anyone with any success that reminds you of your lack of success, and if you can rubbish it by trying to excuse their success you do so.

Clear facts? Your mean the ones that are patently wrong even by her own words? Those clear facts?

Also...clear successes? What, you mean the one where as head of firearm safety on a film, one of her weapons resulted in a death and injury.

Great success!

Also very curious how I'm not successful. Do tell more.

 

[Greebo]

That’s because she is being mispresented and those comments are not from this current job. At this point in her career, she had enough expreince and knows how to load blanks. She was trained by an export in the field on how to load blanks.




Where it was pointed out you are wrong with facts to point out why, which you just ignored. She had 8+ years expreince with guns and training from an expert in the field working on many films before moving from assistant to full head Armourer. Any talk about diversity hire, lack of expreince, woke, is just a load of nonsense which you are known for.

You know pervious people who worked with her called her a very talented armorer, exceptional, professional yet you skip over that as it doesnt fit into your fake narrative that she is lacking in expreince or only hired because of diversity. As you know she was also trained by a famous expert in the field and had successful films behind her. As you where asked before, given her history what are you basing this lack of expreince on? Why do you keep acting like she is too young when she is not and has more then enough years of expreince? She had more years of training with guns then most soldiers get. Her apprenticeship training started 8 years ago. So that's 8 years of gun history.

In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken.

All the evidence points to her being hired on merit including the quotes provided before.




Most likely yes she was hired on her expansive CV and years of expreince along with 4+ years of training by an well known export in the field and quotes from previous people working on films where people where very positive about her calling her talented, exceptional, professional. Its a pretty strong CV.

The article states this was only her second job as armourer and in her first job (the previous one to this, only a month before) she said in interview that she didnt know how to deal with blanks and hadn't handled them before and there was a serious firearm breach on that job. If that is totally false then I apologise. I took the article in good faith and not completely made up.


in the AD statement to the police he says she handed him the gun and showed him just 3 bullets marked as dummies. Where are you getting the info she wasnt there? Perhaps you should give a statement to the police.


EDIT my mistake, I see you quoted Dis as well. APologies.

 

[Dis86]

One film as head armorer, don't tell me you think she has never been on set before and just started out from scratch jumped straight up to head armorer? If you think that then your the one talking absolute rubbish. She talks about her expreince on other films

She has been on other film sets and is a film major from NAU. She has worked at Synthfire media and documentary for 2 years. She also worked as armorer for Yellowstone Film Ranch. “At Yellowstone, she described her duties as, “Loading firearms with appropriately sized blanks. Ensuring gun safety on set along with instructing actors on how to use their guns.” but I guess you want to ignore all that as its debunks your fake narrative she has no expreince and jumped straight up to head armor from nothing. She has years of expreince and years of training.

Being worryed about going from apprenticeship/assistance to your first solo act is perfectly normal. Many people get worryed about a promotion but turn out to be ok. As for lack of knowledge she did the right thing she got training from an export and learnt what she needed to.

Tell you what, let's see sources for all of these facts of yours.

1, she has multiple films where she's worked as an armorer or in any way with firearm control.

2, her university degree in any way supports her work as an armorer.

3, she has 8+ years experience working on many films.

4, after she admitted she knew sweet f.a. about blanks on a film where she was head armorer that she received training from an expert on them. And I believe that film also had firearms issues.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

That’s because she is being mispresented and those comments are not from this current job. At this point in her career, she had enough expreince and knows how to load blanks. She was trained by an export in the field on how to load blanks.




Where it was pointed out you are wrong with facts to point out why, which you just ignored. She had 8+ years expreince with guns and training from an expert in the field working on many films before moving from assistant to full head Armourer. Any talk about diversity hire, lack of expreince, woke, is just a load of nonsense which you are known for.

You know pervious people who worked with her called her a very talented armorer, exceptional, professional yet you skip over that as it doesnt fit into your fake narrative that she is lacking in expreince or only hired because of diversity. As you know she was also trained by a famous expert in the field and had successful films behind her. As you where asked before, given her history what are you basing this lack of expreince on? Why do you keep acting like she is too young when she is not and has more then enough years of expreince? She had more years of training with guns then most soldiers get. Her apprenticeship training started 8 years ago. So that's 8 years of gun history.

In a recent statement it says on set she fought for training days for the actors, days to maintained weapons, proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by the production and department. She complained about the lack of safety meetings. The statement also makes it clear she was not a full-time armorer. They only had her working part time as armorer. Its looking more and more like she was not allowed to prepare the weapons and that she was not the full-time armorer. It looks like the incident happened when she was not working as armorer. She was not there at the table when the weapon was taken.

All the evidence points to her being hired on merit including the quotes provided before.

Wait a minute are you saying that all the "woke" nonsense we read earlier in the thread from the likes of Dis86 and dowie was exactly that, nonsense? Why am I not surprised.

 

[visibleman]

'Hannah said no live ammo is ever kept on set.'

Am i getting this right in that there was only blank/dummy rounds on set? In which case, how did a live round end up in the cylinder? Or was in just a "bad" blank?

 

[Dis86]

Wait a minute are you saying that all the "woke" nonsense we read earlier in the thread from the likes of Dis86 and dowie was exactly that, nonsense? Why am I not surprised.

Well apart from the fact he's wrong. Sure. But as always keep seeing what you want to see...

 

[Pottsey]

The article states this was only her second job as armourer and in her first job (the previous one to this, only a month before) she said in interview that she didnt know how to deal with blanks and hadn't handled them before and there was a serious firearm breach on that job. If that is totally false then I apologise. I took the article in good faith and not completely made up.


in the AD statement to the police he says she handed him the gun and showed him just 3 bullets marked as dummies. Where are you getting the info she wasnt there? Perhaps you should give a statement to the police.


EDIT my mistake, I see you quoted Dis as well. APologies.

I must have missed that about her handing over blanks. In what I read she was not at the table and the AD went to the table and took the gun without her. As I said before there is a lot of conflicting information about this case. Do you have a source for that? Its not that I don't believe you, I just have not read that.

 

[Dis86]

Am i getting this right in that there was only blank/dummy rounds on set? In which case, how did a live round end up in the cylinder? Or was in just a "bad" blank?

We know from multiple other cast members that live ammo was being used on set for plinking.
We know that a bullet was removed from the injured party.

Don't know about you but to me that indicates she either doesn't have a clue about what's going on on set or she's lying.

 

[Greebo]

Am i getting this right in that there was only blank/dummy rounds on set? In which case, how did a live round end up in the cylinder? Or was in just a "bad" blank?

More than 1. There was two in the chamber. One discharged and one not. Not sure how her statement matches up with the crew who left saying there was live ammon on set and people used to use the guns for target practice during downtime.

Either she is trying to cover it up or she genuinely had no idea crew were using the guns without her knowledge for live practice. Either isnt good.

 

[Greebo]

I must have missed that about her handing over blanks. In what I read she was not at the table and the AD went to the table and took the gun without her. As I said before there is a lot of conflicting information about this case. Do you have a source for that? Its not that I don't believe you, I just have not read that.

APologies for the DM link but it does have a screen shot of the statement so I assume its genuine and correct

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...errez-says-no-idea-live-rounds-came-from.html

Halls told sheriff's deputies after the shooting that he asked Gutierrez-Reed to show him the gun before he handed it to Baldwin last Thursday.

Halls said that he can remember seeing three chambers in the gun that contained dummy bullets, recognizable by a small hole in the side that sets them apart from real bullets.

He looked at them, declared the gun 'a cold' weapon then handed it to Baldwin.

It was only after the shooting that he asked Gutierrez-Reed to look again inside the chamber. That is when they saw there were five rounds, four of which were dummies and one of which contained the spent casing of a real bullet.

Halls admitted to the sheriff that he 'should have checked' all of the rounds but 'didn't.'

The warrant also describes how Hannah Gutierrez-Reed described there never being 'any live rounds' on set.

'Hannah advised that she checked the 'dummies' and ensured "they were not hot rounds".

'She said as the crew broke for lunch, the firearms were taken back and secured inside a safe on a prop truck on set.

'During lunch, she said the ammo was left on a cart on the set and not secured.

'After lunch, [property manager] Sarah Zachary pulled the firearms out of the safe inside the truck and handed them to her.

'She advised there are only a few people that have access and the combination to the safe.

'Hannah advised that she handed the gun to Alec Baldwin a couple of times, and also handed it to David Halls. Hannah said no live ammo is ever kept on set.'

Sorry, mistake earlier, there were 5 rounds in the gun and only one was live, the other 4 were blanks.

 

[Dis86]

APologies for the DM link

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...errez-says-no-idea-live-rounds-came-from.html



Sorry, mistake earlier, there were 5 rounds in the gun and only one was live, the other 4 were blanks.

Dummies. Not blanks. Very important difference.

 

[Pottsey]

Clear facts? Your mean the ones that are patently wrong even by her own words? Those clear facts?

You mean where she says she was misrepresented by the media?

 

[Werewolf]

I ignored it, because like this post of yours it was absolute rubbish. Easily debunked by pointing out she doesn't have films behind her. She has a film. 1. Singular. Additionally her own quotes show how she was lacking basic knowledge and quite frankly bricking it.

Her own quotes about being scared or feeling not ready could be applied to pretty much anyone in any job who was moving to a new role, or had just been promoted.

Pretty much anyone who is honest will admit to being nervous about new roles, especially if they are safety related because they know what happens if something goes wrong.
I've talked to people who've been effectively doing a job for years who were nervous/a little worried about it when they actually got the title because whilst they've been doing the job, there is now no one to check it, and more importantly they're now responsible.

I'd much rather someone who was new to a specific job title admit they were nervous about it than someone who was "yeah i can do this fine, it's going to be easy" because the one who is admitting to nerves is far more likely to be cautious and double check their work. A lot of the worst accidents, especially with firearms come from those who feel they know everything and can't make a mistake because being complacent about safety tends to lead to you skipping things.

It's the reason even an aircraft pilot with 20 years and thousands of flights in a specific aircraft doing the same route still has to go through a checklist with a second person, because all it takes is one lapse in concentration, or worse knowingly skipping steps because "well I already know it" to cause an accident.

 

[Dis86]

You mean where she says she was misrepresented by the media?

Oh but your media sources (that you still haven't supplied) are 100% factual and accurate?

Also note some of this information is literally on her own social media profiles.