Am i in the wrong?

[richieboy]

I notice its only the kids who are saying this stuff..Get in at the last minute unless your contract states otherwise..LOL...

Define "kids" for me. Thats it...im going to do it...im GOING TO

The fact is, if his contract says 9-5, they are the hours he should be there for. I could quote your "problems with people today" comment and say how it makes me think of a fumbling grumpy old fugder moaning about all that is wrong with this country. But i won't .

You people /Alan P.

 

[Phate]

This is one of the problems with people today..They only care about doing the minimum required to get by :/

I work my ass off for that company the others do 5 days a week i do 6, most of the time im there early (im going after i finish posting this) hes usually late.

Fair enough in the evening i pretty much always leave bang on half 5, but thats only due to the fact i can't wait to get out of there where the shop manager is being an arse

 

[theleg]

Define "kids" for me. Thats it...im going to do it...im GOING TO

The fact is, if his contract says 9-5, they are the hours he should be there for. I could quote your "problems with people today" comment and say how it makes me think of a fumbling grumpy old fugder moaning about all that is wrong with this country. But i won't .

You people /Alan P.

Kids...in this context means people who havent been working full timefor very long.

No..those are the hours he should be WORKING...He is contracted to work between 9 and 5...

I dont care if you think im a grumpy old fudger..Im 26 so I am gettin on a bit..

 

[richieboy]

Kids...in this context means people who havent been working full timefor very long.

This is getting slightly off topic now, but i cannot see how employment laws would change for people that "havent been working full time for very long". Can you define "very long"? 5 years? 8 years and 3 months? What a load.

As the guy mentioned above, he works hard. I am not saying everyone should get in at 9 on the dot, i am saying that if he wanted to he could because it would appear that 9am is the time he is contracted to start.

The point i made earlier is the fact that he is getting in early every day because he, like you say, is settling down and preparing to start work (out of the kindess of his own heart) then it should be appreciated and not taken for granted by his employer.

 

[Morba]

contracted 9-5 means work from 9am.

if that means you have to be there a few mins early because you want to put something in a locker or similar then do that (which clearly Phate normally does arrive early).

9-5 does not mean in the door at 9 and out the door at 5 (in general). Your on the shop floor to work at 9am, you walk off the shop floor at 5pm. this should be expected and adhered to, its not a case of being taken for granted or being appreciated!

 

[theleg]

This is getting slightly off topic now, but i cannot see how employment laws would change for people that "havent been working full time for very long". Can you define "very long"? 5 years? 8 years and 3 months? What a load.

As the guy mentioned above, he works hard. I am not saying everyone should get in at 9 on the dot, i am saying that if he wanted to he could because it would appear that 9am is the time he is contracted to start.

The point i made earlier is the fact that he is getting in early every day because he, like you say, is settling down and preparing to start work (out of the kindess of his own heart) then it should be appreciated and not taken for granted by his employer.

Employment law doesnt change depending on age..I never said it did...The age thing was in relation to the attitudes being expressed. :dunno:

You seem to believe that the moment you arrive at work, you start working...That may be the case for you, but I can assure you, its not the case for the majority of people.

 

[G|mp]

Shop manager: "Jake! your supposed to say sorry when your late"
Me: "I'm not late"
Shop manager: "Yes you are, work starts at 9!"
Me: "It is 9"
Shop Manager: "No its a minute after"
Me "I make it a minute before, ring the freakin talking clock if you wanna be that specific"

Just for that conversation i would have told you to put your coat back on
and get down the job centre

No matter how much of an arse hes being he is still your boss and IME you
dont speak to bosses like that if you want to get anywhere

 

[Pudney]

Just for that conversation i would have told you to put your coat back on
and get down the job centre

No matter how much of an arse hes being he is still your boss and IME you
dont speak to bosses like that if you want to get anywhere

If you did that to me you'd be straight down a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

 

[richieboy]

Employment law doesnt change depending on age..I never said it did...The age thing was in relation to the attitudes being expressed. :dunno:

I found it unnecessary.

You seem to believe that the moment you arrive at work, you start working...That may be the case for you, but I can assure you, its not the case for the majority of people.

And you seem to have problems reading my posts:

I am not saying everyone should get in at 9 on the dot, i am saying that if he wanted to he could because it would appear that 9am is the time he is contracted to start.

In previous jobs with fixed working hour contracts i would always arrive about 15 minutes early to prepare and settle down. I am desperately trying to get my point that this should not be taken for granted across to you. I will say again (and hope you read it this time) that i am NOT saying people should arrive at work on the exact time they are due to start work.

 

[G|mp]

If you did that to me you'd be straight down a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

So be it

But if i was his boss i wouldnt want him speaking to me like that

Showing a lack of respect for your boss whilst turning up for work late
is grounds for dismissal in my book

 

[theleg]

If you did that to me you'd be straight down a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

Late for work and showing incredible disrespect for the boss? Demeaning the boss in front of the other staff and in front of customers..Disrupting the work environment..

Im no employment lawyer but that sounds like pretty good grounds for dismissal...and that doesnt even touch on the subject of him ignoring the boss completely later in the day.

 

[Pudney]

Late for work and showing incredible disrespect for the boss? Demeaning the boss in front of the other staff and in front of customers..Disrupting the work environment..

Im no employment lawyer but that sounds like pretty good grounds for dismissal...and that doesnt even touch on the subject of him ignoring the boss completely later in the day.

Well, it remains to be seen if he was late, thus I'd be more than happy to argue that point in a hearing. Next, a courteous reply was offered, the boss decided to escalate the talk in which case I'd argue that provocation was offered. Next, this isn't a case where straight dismissal is eligible, written warning maybe, dismissal no. In which case I'd say I'd be very confident I'd win.


Edit: Oh, and add in intimidation and bullying by the boss.

 

[G|mp]

You would be within your rights to do that

But how many of these cases actually come off?

Ive been sacked for less than that in the past and the whole shabang your on
about takes a lot more effort than simply being a good employee while your
at work, the whole process takes months to sort out

And didnt you know the little fellas never win against big companys

 

[Pudney]

You would be within your rights to do that

But how many of these cases actually come off?

Ive been sacked for less than that in the past and the whole shabang your on
about takes a lot more effort than simply being a good employee while your
at work, the whole process takes months to sort out

And didnt you know the little fellas never win against big companys

It depends on the person, I probably would see it through, more because I'm stubborn and like to stand up for what I believe is right no matter what.

As a sidenote, I don't actually believe he should've spoken to the boss in that manner, it's just a case that dismissal in those circumstances would never really stick if tested.

 

[Mickey_D]

Granted Phate shouldn't have snapped back at the boss, but he's the worker. The boss doesn't deserve his job as a shop foreman or shop manager should have had the training and demeaner to not make the statement "You're supposed to say sorry when you're late". That's just childish and inappropriate. Definately not manager material.

And the last person I worked for that was like that, I treated in much the same way. You act like a child as a boss, you get treated like one. And guess what? His boss didn't think my boss was management material either, so he no longer works there. Sometimes justice is served......

 

[theleg]

Well, it remains to be seen if he was late, thus I'd be more than happy to argue that point in a hearing. Next, a courteous reply was offered, the boss decided to escalate the talk in which case I'd argue that provocation was offered. Next, this isn't a case where straight dismissal is eligible, written warning maybe, dismissal no. In which case I'd say I'd be very confident I'd win.


Edit: Oh, and add in intimidation and bullying by the boss.

Escalate? The boss doesnt have a right to make it known to his employee that being late isnt acceptable? He didnt even chastise him for it, he merely asked for an apology. Sounds to me like it was just a way to get him to acknowledge he was late and it wasnt acceptable.

If it was that one thing then id probably agree with you..but coupled with the argument later in the day and the poster saying that he always argues with the boss at work..plus the fact that there doesnt seem to be any problems with the other employees and the boss.

 

[Luke15]

What i hate is how they rob your time.

Like i do a saturday job, and when a customer complains about a till being shut, i have to do and extra 10minutes unpaid work.

 

[Pudney]

Escalate? The boss doesnt have a right to make it known to his employee that being late isnt acceptable? He didnt even chastise him for it, he merely asked for an apology. Sounds to me like it was just a way to get him to acknowledge he was late and it wasnt acceptable.

If it was that one thing then id probably agree with you..but coupled with the argument later in the day and the poster saying that he always argues with the boss at work..plus the fact that there doesnt seem to be any problems with the other employees and the boss.

The boss has every right to make it known when something isn't acceptable. It's the manner in which they do it that is important. From what the OP has said (and granted it is a biased view so this is somewhat of an assumption) the shop manager has done it in an inappropriate manner.

 

[Dolph]

I'm with Balddog here.

Being in work on time means being ready to work at the start of your shift in most places, not simply being in the building.

There does seem to be a personality clash between the OP and his boss, but I can't see that the boss is behaving unreasonably.

If you're really unhappy there, find another job. If you and your boss are conflicting like this, it's not going to be a happy place to work.

-Dolph

 

[Mickey_D]

I agree with Pudney. Managers are not permitted to display attitudes with thier workers and then expect none in return. If you feel otherwise, then I hope I never have to work for you......