Amazing sotry of near-death experience

[jas72]

This is an interesting subject in it's self. There is a large body of evidence to show that it is only in the last 4,000 years that we became such a destructive species. People imagine going back that humans were a lot more barbaric and uncivilized but there is strong evidence to show that this is not true. War between tribes was rare and killing people in your own community was even rarer.

Back in time it seems we were a lot more in tune with nature and each other, we were more instinctive animals and didn't have such a sense of self. Our communities were rather like the other monkey species on the planet, males would maybe wrestle or fight for mating or leadership rights but killing was rare.

Eventually though came the dawn of self realization. A greater understanding of our selves and the world also brought a new fear of death. To escape death people tried to gain power and possessions as a means to try and transcend it, the dawn of the ego was upon us. This lust for power, control and possession eventually turned into war. Human war more than anything then shaped the planet to where we are today.

So yes our move away from nature to a one of self realization and knowledge has definitely been a double edged sword.

Sorry to be so off topic....

Okay I have to deal with what you are saying here.

You are saying that we as early humans were all lovey dovey and never fought? I find that really hard to believe. Infact even as far back as 4000 BC were we enslaving people to build great pyramids. (They could not have been built without mass enslavement.) Also had prehistoric man been given a gun he would surely have shot his enemys.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Thanks for the support Chris, good to know that someone else here understands. Unfortunately for every person who upholds this sort of thing there will be ten on OcUK who say it's rubbish! I don't know how much more I can add to this topic since it's already gone way off track, though I do think the story [or sotry] in the OP is fascinating.

Come on guys, give Lysander a break. As Chris said the mind is an amazing tool with lots of power.

Lysander held something in her hand, wanted to believe it could move by pure thought and that almighty powerful divining brain went and moved ever so slightly and fooled people into thinking it was moving all on its own, shocking.

Whats also hilarious in these cases is, for 99% of people, hold up your hand, completely still, try to keep it still, even if it doesn't look like it you're still moving, inperceptably small movements maybe, but generally, when connected to something at the end of a longish piece of string/chain(which is whats normally used) those tiny movements are exagerated.



The original post story reads like utter tripe start to finish and I don't believe a single damned word of it. Let me guess, when you speak to said person, on said forum, somewhere along the lines theres a group yoga seminar, or a book on how to feel these feelings priced at a low low price available now.


Theres the truly gullable and hopeful, those who believe in religion because they want a reason for going through pain in life and not wanting it to end. Theres the logical, people who realise there is no god, theres nowt going on after you die and life is harsh, what you do really doesn't matter in the slightest once you're gone. AChieve world peace, make 7 billion pounds, cure cancer, invent the warp drive, once your dead, your dead and none of it matters.

Then theres the inbetween's, not quite dumb enough to believe in god anymore, but ina vein attempt to make themselves believe theres more to life than there is, cling onto every paranormal belief going no matter how ridiculous. Frankly, every time people mention these beliefs someone will find a way to disprove how stupid they are and risk causing you to lose your belief in whatever it is. Keep quiet, for the sake of our sanity and irritation, and for the sake of you not having to read anything disproving of what you believe.

Other than being irritated by the unrational beliefs no one will start to believe this crock of ****, but all the peopel that think there is more to life will eventually, if they keep going on about stuff, find veyr logical and provable reasons why everything they believe is ridiculous. SO you have everything to lose by speaking out about that crap. SO like i said, keep quiet, better for you, and better for us who get irritated.

 

[Lysander]

Lysander held something in her hand, wanted to believe it could move by pure thought and that almighty powerful divining brain went and moved ever so slightly and fooled people into thinking it was moving all on its own, shocking.

Hmm, not quite. One thing I'm talking very specifically about is pendulum divination, whereby a pendulum is held by a length of string or chain from the fingers. Asking questions repeatedly or giving commands while keeping the hand still can cause the pendulum to swing or rotate very fast [depending on what you ask] as a result of energy transfer. There's nothing anyone can say to dissuade me from the genuineness of this. It's very simple and very effective.

EDIT - rereading your post it seems you understand what I'm talking about. However, the tiny movements you speak of are no way enough to cause the level of activity I've spoken about. I've even tried this - to make tiny movements or even circles to see if I'll get the same result - and I got nothing like it.

 

[Holliday]

Drunkenmaster, as far as I'm aware this is a forum, a forum of discussion, discussion can't happen without opinion.

Also, if you get irritated by people voicing (not forcing) their beliefs which obviously differ from yours, then I suggest you take your discusion to Microsoft Word and talk to yourself, less irritation that way I guess.

 

[Radiation]

Come on guys, give Lysander a break. As Chris said the mind is an amazing tool with lots of power.

Lysander held something in her hand, wanted to believe it could move by pure thought and that almighty powerful divining brain went and moved ever so slightly and fooled people into thinking it was moving all on its own, shocking.

Whats also hilarious in these cases is, for 99% of people, hold up your hand, completely still, try to keep it still, even if it doesn't look like it you're still moving, inperceptably small movements maybe, but generally, when connected to something at the end of a longish piece of string/chain(which is whats normally used) those tiny movements are exagerated.

While i don't agree with most of what you've said, here's another little test I just thought of that people can do to show theres constant impulses going into their muscles, its actually tricky to stop them even when you think your relaxed, take your finger and stick it in your ear, yes go on you should hear a kind of rumble vibration noise, its fairly quiet but noticeable, thats muscle activity, now try to relax your hand to quite it or stop it, not easy is it?

 

[drunkenmaster]

Drunkenmaster, as far as I'm aware this is a forum, a forum of discussion, discussion can't happen without opinion.

Also, if you get irritated by people voicing (not forcing) their beliefs which obviously differ from yours, then I suggest you take your discusion to Microsoft Word and talk to yourself, less irritation that way I guess.

errm, basically, bite me. People, lots of people, get irritated by other peoples point of view, thats life. I didn't say it wasn't. I was pointing out that irritation isn't going to change my life, while, posting things that are likely to be disproved, Lysander, if someone came up with a few very good explanation has everything to lose. If he believes in this stuff, and it gives him comfort to think theres other things about then thats great, it makes him happy and he is the ONLY one who stands to lose. I thought i made that clear. My point was sure I'd be less irritated, same way people get irritated and angry with people with racist opinions, I happen to get irritated with people who I feel have stupid opinions. What do I stand to lose? Irritation, Lysander stands to lose a belief system that works for him. Who benefits more from not posting stuff about the paranormal, not me, that was my point.



AS for the specifcally trying to make the pendulum move in the same way, well I can't really say how it "moved" when you weren't trying, and how you made it move on purpose. So I can't really comment on why you're wrong, but you are hehe, I don't really know. But it's not suprising to me that basically all of the people who claim to move stuff with just their minds use the most most most most most most ridiculous item with which to do it. AS i said, something on a pendulum with a miniscule movement at the top can have a much more visible movement at the bottom. You always see video's of people doing this and thinking its proved, but you never see any of these people who think it works do it with any other items that would not show such exagerated movement. Why do they always have to be holding the damn thing. Its almost physically impossible to hold your arm up and not move it even a tiny bit. You might not move much but breathing will move your entire upperbody, only slightly but it will move it. You can also have your arm up and move your whole body without your arm appearing to move if your body keeps its shape.

All of these things that "prove" paranormal crap never work with any other items or any other way.

PS, I'm not wanting to sound rude or call you stupid but honestly, I do believe anyone that believes in stuff like that is. Which is why I mentioned simply not mentioning stuff like it for yourself as much as anyone else.

I'm not entirely sure the forum as a whole is closeminded, frankly I see it as open minded to find the scientific explanations for these things and be able to see past the initial action and look for reasoning, but thats just me.

 

[Lysander]

errm, basically, bite me. People, lots of people, get irritated by other peoples point of view, thats life. I didn't say it wasn't. I was pointing out that irritation isn't going to change my life, while, posting things that are likely to be disproved, Lysander, if someone came up with a few very good explanation has everything to lose. If he believes in this stuff, and it gives him comfort to think theres other things about then thats great, it makes him happy and he is the ONLY one who stands to lose. I thought i made that clear. My point was sure I'd be less irritated, same way people get irritated and angry with people with racist opinions, I happen to get irritated with people who I feel have stupid opinions. What do I stand to lose? Irritation, Lysander stands to lose a belief system that works for him. Who benefits more from not posting stuff about the paranormal, not me, that was my point.



AS for the specifcally trying to make the pendulum move in the same way, well I can't really say how it "moved" when you weren't trying, and how you made it move on purpose. So I can't really comment on why you're wrong, but you are hehe, I don't really know. But it's not suprising to me that basically all of the people who claim to move stuff with just their minds use the most most most most most most ridiculous item with which to do it. AS i said, something on a pendulum with a miniscule movement at the top can have a much more visible movement at the bottom. You always see video's of people doing this and thinking its proved, but you never see any of these people who think it works do it with any other items that would not show such exagerated movement. Why do they always have to be holding the damn thing. Its almost physically impossible to hold your arm up and not move it even a tiny bit. You might not move much but breathing will move your entire upperbody, only slightly but it will move it. You can also have your arm up and move your whole body without your arm appearing to move if your body keeps its shape.

All of these things that "prove" paranormal crap never work with any other items or any other way.

PS, I'm not wanting to sound rude or call you stupid but honestly, I do believe anyone that believes in stuff like that is. Which is why I mentioned simply not mentioning stuff like it for yourself as much as anyone else.

I'm not entirely sure the forum as a whole is closeminded, frankly I see it as open minded to find the scientific explanations for these things and be able to see past the initial action and look for reasoning, but thats just me.

Nice post, I enjoyed it. But three points -

1] The miniscule unintentional muscle movements you make when holding the pendulum are in no way enough to make it rotate with the force that it does. It can rotate quickly out at a 45 degree angle, or steeper.

2] I [though others may] have never attributed its movement to the paranormal, but more to subsconscious or supernatural energy.

3] This is definitely the most closedminded forum I've ever been on, but that's relative to other forums I've been to. I've been places where the posters write things that would make some peoples' brains spin. Even I thought these people were insane!

 

[drunkenmaster]

I understand why you think it is, but from mine and, seemingly by many on this forum(cept those anti immigrant lot) find it the opposite. From my viewpoint assuming things are paranormal because you can't reason why/how something happens seems closeminded to me, while looking for the reason behind why some things happen seems open minded to me.

But i see it works both ways.

For me anyway, the paranormal is best left to decent sci-fi films and TV, and games. Religion is best left to, errm, stupid people
Racism is best left to well, everyone in the immigrant threads and, crime threads, benefits threads, racist threads, ninja squirrel threads(everyone hate the black squirrels).

 

[Radiation]

If you can move a pendulum with your mind why not stick one in a jar or a plastic bottle on a stable surface and without touching it we should see it move?

 

[Surfer]

I [though others may] have never attributed its movement to the paranormal, but more to subsconscious or supernatural energy.

Whats "supernatural energy"? Come to think of it what the heck is "subconscious" energy......

 

[Snakedoctor]

I nearly died while playing Stalker last night. Good job I had some health packs.

 

[Lysander]

Whats "supernatural energy"? Come to think of it what the heck is "subconscious" energy......

Do i really have to pull the dictionary out?

Supernatural: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe

I nearly died while playing Stalker last night. Good job I had some health packs.

STALKER is probably one of the most boring games I've ever played.

 

[Snakedoctor]

Do i really have to pull the dictionary out?





STALKER is probably one of the most boring games I've ever played.

What would you recommend? Looking for a good fps. Done MOH, Crysis Stalkers etc. Nothing reasonable about at the mo.

 

[Lysander]

What would you recommend? Looking for a good fps. Done MOH, Crysis Stalkers etc. Nothing reasonable about at the mo.

The best FPS games I've played recently have been Bioshock, Prey and Portal [not strictly a FPS but very close]. All excellent.

 

[Holliday]

snip

You don't stand to lose only irritation, but your 'belief' system also, science and rationality.

Science is a system created by humans, and like us it has its boundaries and limitations. It even has its own discrepencies, theories and formulae that work, but not perfectly.

Science bases itself on 'facts', the ironic thing is, to advance, sometimes scientists have to question these facts, leading them to new theories and facts, these replacing the previous and taken to be the ultimate truth, until they're questioned again and so forth.

Another crappy example of this is the recent discovery which was posted on here not long ago. It was believed that when the body is starved of oxygen for an extended period of time the cells die, but due to new research it's discovered that it's the reintroduction of oxygen which kills cells. Yet the first theory of this was thought to be fact, it was taught, learned and taken to be the absolute truth.

So in a way, science and belief in other things have a similarity, they both continually question what the general concesus is taught to believe.

Who knows, maybe all these 'paranormal' events will be proved to be hoaxes, yet maybe in the future they will be explainable scientifically, measurable or detectable new particles or energy which can be produced by humans.

Or there's even the possibility that science won't be able to explain it, and most of us will continue to be skeptics as we've come to rely on science as the be-all and end-all of what we percieve as reality.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

If you can move a pendulum with your mind why not stick one in a jar or a plastic bottle on a stable surface and without touching it we should see it move?

Better yet, I think we now have a new form of renewable energy! Ok, maybe not "renewable", but good enough. Lysander, do you think you could get a wind farm going?

 

[Snakedoctor]

The best FPS games I've played recently have been Bioshock, Prey and Portal [not strictly a FPS but very close]. All excellent.

Got all of those. The cake is a lie though

 

[Vern1961]

Kum Bye Bloody Yah

Final thought...

If there is an afterlife or existence beyond death, then the last thing I want to be doing is standing around holding hands in some New Age type group therapy thing. I want my knowledge, experience and what I learned during life (well, not sure what GTA would be useful for but seriously...) put to some good and maybe help make things better somewhere.

All that after the 10 cent tour of the Universe, of course

 

[Surfer]

Supernatural: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe

and uhh the Paranormal?

I [though others may] have never attributed its movement to the paranormal, but more to subsconscious or supernatural energy.

i forgets... the difference between paranormal and supernatural? whats that again? (i have a bad memory )

 

[Psycrow]

I also had a near death experience from a drugs overdose about 4 years ago.

I can't help but feel your out of body state may have been triggered by something other than a spiritual experience....like lots of drugs.....

My dads friend was wasted and chased a snail called sammy around the floor, doesn't mean it actually happened.


Lysander - Video of you moving stuff with your mind or spinning pendulums around!