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AMD 7nm GPU News and Rumours 2018/2019

I remember reading that Navi's meant to be a Polaris replacement not a Vega one?

Well, if you consider Polaris as the "mid range" and Vega as the "top end" then Navi's alleged intention to target the mid and upper-midrange market, then yes Navi will be a Polaris replacement.

However, if we see a RX600 series based on the rumoured 12nm Polaris 30, that means Navi will replace Vega. And with it being on 7nm and (hopefully) better binned chips and (hopefully hopefully) GDDR6 on the gaming cards instead of HBM, we could see Navi have a chunky performance boost over Vega, probably trading blows with the 1080 Ti.

Which means no super high end halo product for AMD just yet.
 
I remember reading that Navi's meant to be a Polaris replacement not a Vega one?
I read that ages ago and if true Navi may only match Vega at best, a bit like Grenada and Polaris on release,
It may even be like Fiji & Polaris on release where those of us on Vega have no upgrade available in Navi,
Damn, I hope not. :(

Let's not forget that AMD is moving to infinity fabric for GPUs with Vega 20 and Navi.

So AMD needs nothing more than a 1080ti perf top of the range card at the 400 price range, and anyone could hook more than one if wants more perf by using infinity fabric and not cross fire.
 
Let's not forget that AMD is moving to infinity fabric for GPUs with Vega 20 and Navi.

Usually I think the vitriol spewed in your direction is unjustified, but this time even I think you're off your head. AMD aren't going chiplets and interconnects any time soon for GPUs. Last thing I read was AMD are "considering it, of course" but it's not gonna happen any time soon.

Unless you have a source?
 
Usually I think the vitriol spewed in your direction is unjustified, but this time even I think you're off your head. AMD aren't going chiplets and interconnects any time soon for GPUs. Last thing I read was AMD are "considering it, of course" but it's not gonna happen any time soon.

Unless you have a source?

Because you blind search related articles from around September 9th.
Nobody said anything about chiplets, but through the motherboard there is Infinity fabric on Vega based server GPUs since last year.
 
If that were true then they wouldn't have quietly scrapped the Vega Nano.

AMD scrapped that plan long ago. The only partner still interested in doing one is looking to do it with the cut down Vega 56, they were never going to be able to create a Vega card like the Fury Nano. Maybe it will be possible with a 7nm Vega.

Let's not forget that AMD is moving to infinity fabric for GPUs with Vega 20 and Navi.

Were did you hear this?

So AMD needs nothing more than a 1080ti perf top of the range card at the 400 price range, and anyone could hook more than one if wants more perf by using infinity fabric and not cross fire.

I don't think they'll be able to use Infinity fabric to link cards, It's too delicate, Hopefully it'll be possible on the die though, as it is with Ryzen, that'd be a great way to close the performance gap if it's able to work properly.
 
That was their original plan, and my point is they would not have scrapped that plan if Navi wasn't going to be a Vega replacement.

I know it was but what I'm saying is that I'd put money on the reason they scrapped the plan for a Vega Nano being because Vega was not good for it, not that they scrapped the Nano because Vega was being replaced, they wouldn't of done that, It's much more likely they scrapped it because they weren't getting enough cherry picked chips capable of sustaining a line of Vega Nano's, The fact that Powercolor are using the Vega 56 for their Nano instead of the full chip supports the theory as well.
 
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Nobody said anything about chiplets, but through the motherboard there is Infinity fabric on Vega based server GPUs since last year.

I never knew that so it may be possible that we'll see a new line of motherbards using Infinity fabric for crossfire, The question then is if it's still going through the pcie won't it still need proper driver support which crossfire doesn't get anyway?
Maybe they're up to something with pcie 4.0 and the next gen Ryzen? I read that RTG had been given samples of the 7nm Ryzen chips to work on with the next gpu range so maybe something's going on there if that's true. They maybe working on a way to let those with AMD CPU's & GPU's get a performance boost from using them together. That'd be good.
 
So bridgeless Crossfire then
Crossfire doesn't require bridge since 2013 with the R9 290X. Ever since all new cards post Hawaii operating through the motherboard only.

I never knew that so it may be possible that we'll see a new line of motherbards using Infinity fabric for crossfire, The question then is if it's still going through the pcie won't it still need proper driver support which crossfire doesn't get anyway?
Maybe they're up to something with pcie 4.0 and the next gen Ryzen? I read that RTG had been given samples of the 7nm Ryzen chips to work on with the next gpu range so maybe something's going on there if that's true. They maybe working on a way to let those with AMD CPU's & GPU's get a performance boost from using them together. That'd be good.

We do know X470 will support Pcie 4, same applies to Vega 20 and all newer GPUs.

Vega 10 utilizes Infinity Fabric on compute servers since 2017 when it came out, and was confirmed more than a year ago
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gp...ega_utilises_their_new_infinity_fabric_tech/1


From earlier this year

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-navi-gpu-release-date-performance


and more recent last month about AMD xGMI

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-xgmi-vega-20-gpu-nvidia-nvlink

https://www.techpowerup.com/247388/amd-implements-xgmi-for-vega-20-as-competition-to-nvlink


Lets not forget everyone condemned before Ryzen came out of "gluing them together and no different than the Q6600".
 
Usually I think the vitriol spewed in your direction is unjustified, but this time even I think you're off your head. AMD aren't going chiplets and interconnects any time soon for GPUs. Last thing I read was AMD are "considering it, of course" but it's not gonna happen any time soon.

Unless you have a source?

Google search AMD xGMI
Is less than a bloody month old news, how you forgot it?
 
I never knew that so it may be possible that we'll see a new line of motherbards using Infinity fabric for crossfire, The question then is if it's still going through the pcie won't it still need proper driver support which crossfire doesn't get anyway?
Maybe they're up to something with pcie 4.0 and the next gen Ryzen? I read that RTG had been given samples of the 7nm Ryzen chips to work on with the next gpu range so maybe something's going on there if that's true. They maybe working on a way to let those with AMD CPU's & GPU's get a performance boost from using them together. That'd be good.

It isn't going to happen. For compute sure but for gaming we aren't going to see MCM type designs that can make a GPU appear as a single logical device yet or interconnects that magically make CF/SLI work perfectly with current monolithic architectures.
 
We do know X570 will support Pcie 4, same applies to Vega 20 and all newer GPUs.

Vega 10 utilizes Infinity Fabric on compute servers since 2017 when it came out, and was confirmed more than a year ago
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gp...ega_utilises_their_new_infinity_fabric_tech/1
From earlier this year
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-navi-gpu-release-date-performance
and more recent last month about AMD xGMI
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-xgmi-vega-20-gpu-nvidia-nvlink
https://www.techpowerup.com/247388/amd-implements-xgmi-for-vega-20-as-competition-to-nvlink
Lets not forget everyone condemned before Ryzen came out of "gluing them together and no different than the Q6600".

Thanks for the links, I'll go have read now. :)
 
Lets not forget everyone condemned before Ryzen came out of "gluing them together and no different than the Q6600".

You got that backwards - people had a dig at AMD with Ryzen/IF because of the dig they had at Intel in the context of gluing cores together but no one other than tiny number of people - basically your opposite numbers in the Intel camp - ever doubted/condemned it precisely because the Q6600 showed it was possible to glue cores together successfully.
 
Far too many uses of the phrase "Infinity Fabric" to describe different technologies.

You say "Infinity Fabric", I think of the interposer connecting Zen cores, I think applying the same chiplet concept to GPUs. That's not the same thing as NVLink and xGMI, and MGM isn't going to happen any time soon.

And yes, I know bridgeless Crossfire has existed since 2013, that was what I was getting at. Connecting 2 GPUs over PCI-E or a bridge isn't a silicon interposer "glueing" multiple chips together as a cohesive unit, ergo it's not "Infinity Fabric on motherboards".

My head's too sore to sift through marketing complexities.
 
You got that backwards - people had a dig at AMD with Ryzen/IF because of the dig they had at Intel in the context of gluing cores together but no one other than tiny number of people - basically your opposite numbers in the Intel camp - ever doubted/condemned it precisely because the Q6600 showed it was possible to glue cores together successfully.


I remember Intel having a dig at Ryzen's gluey nature. Fast forward many months and they were trying to employ the architect behind Ryzen :D
 
You say "Infinity Fabric", I think of the interposer connecting Zen cores,

IF was designed as a powerful general purpose interconnect that can tie together different types of modules that might not even "know" how to talk to each other. It certainly isn't limited to connecting Zen cores together.

On the other hand for a gaming MCM GPU you need a more specialised interconnect - though there is nothing stopping them evolving IF to support that in future.
 
IF was designed as a powerful general purpose interconnect that can tie together different types of modules that might not even "know" how to talk to each other. It certainly isn't limited to connecting Zen cores together.

On the other hand for a gaming MCM GPU you need a more specialised interconnect - though there is nothing stopping them evolving IF to support that in future.


You don't really need a more specialised interconnect at all, what you need is a more specialised utilisation of infinity fabric. For all intents and purposes it's just a cache coherent protocol that can be pushed over any connection. You can run infinity fabric through pci-e, on an interposer, silicon or organic, the difference is how many lanes, how big the controller based on how much data it's pushing, how much power is used and thus the performance. To make multiple chips work together as one on the gpu side is just significantly harder than on the CPU because with CPUs you have very limited information that really wants to go to a single place with few options and it's damn easy to schedule, with a gpu half the battle is utilising the cores effectively with constantly changing tasks and differing workloads. I actually think they are underplaying it right now and it's definitely for the future.

But where a CPU can use 4 identical Zen dies for a gpu we almost certainly won't see that. What we'd most likely see is. Lets take a 700mm^2 die for comparison, instead of one monolithic die we'd see a 40-50mm^2 control block sitting in the middle, then you'd have say 4-6 blocks of shaders, say 512-1024 shaders in each block and those are 150mm^2 per piece, then you probably start dedicating things by making a separate ray tracing block and put that in, with a different number of connections than the shader blocks because at this point you can say ray tracing uses less or more bandwidth (whichever it is) so we'll optimise by having 30GB/s to each shader block but 15Gb/s to the ray tracing block.

If you had a single identical die then apart from having the same control parts of the die duplicated in each and wasting space, because the major battle in GPU is effective utilisation then everything is waiting on the master block to decide things and then you'll get stalls everywhere and one overworked main block that isn't designed to control 4 dies.

I don't think IF would have any trouble being used for such a layout and connections.

However IF being used on a motherboard is no different to pci-e, it won't enable some magical ability for chips to work on different cards to somehow behave as one. An IF connection routed over PCI-e bus ain't doing anything particularly new. NVlink can't enable magic modes, neither can XMI or whatever it's called, neither can using IF over a pci-e bus. Until you get a bus that allows the same bandwidth and latency that is available for on die communication, or at least in the same magnitude, then you aren't getting close to working as one die across slots.
 
with a gpu half the battle is utilising the cores effectively with constantly changing tasks and differing workloads. I actually think they are underplaying it right now and it's definitely for the future.

People keep envisioning this future as being smaller versions of current monolithic cores tied together with an interconnect but that isn't the most effective and probably the eventual way MCM GPUs would be done - a proper MCM design that can scale effectively would to some degree separate out the systems that exist within a current single GPU core package making use of advances in substrate technology and specialised interconnects along with 7nm and smaller processes to make it possible.
 
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