AMD accused of "Golden Sample" on 290X given to reviewers, retail bought cards throttling

[teppic]

Sorry Greg, just realised you had it wrong. This is how its supposed to be.

The 770 isn't in the same league as the 290 though?

 

[LtMatt]

I don't care but it is the way AMD fans see it and not the way the world see's it. The 7990 Vs the 690 would be fair but hey, whatever allows people to say they have the fastest is cool with me.

7990 Vs the 780Ti it is then

The point you're missing is AMD do not target a big die single gpu with a similar big die gpu. They target it with a dual gpu offering on a single pcb. This is nothing to do with AMD fans as you like to call it. The fact the 290 (x or otherwise) gets anywhere near a gpu like the titan is surprising.

The 770 isn't in the same league as the 290 though?

I know but on pricing its very close. Some reviews even compare 290 vs 770 the pricing is that similar.

AMD specifically stated 290X is vs 780 on pricing and performance. The 290 comes in below that and based on price its natural competitor is the 770.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Repeat.

 

[vUNREALv]

Is it just me or has the 290x/290 release really rattled some cages?

 

[Jakus]

People do not seem to grasp the seriousness of even a single situation occuring (Toms that is) whereby a review 290 outperforms a retail 290X, if it's happened once then it obviously means that sufficient quality control is not in place.

Okay, lets say that AMD are NOT cherry picking GPU's for reviewers (doubtful but anyway) and AMD are handing reviewers perfectly average GPU's, the problem is that many BELOW AVERAGE GPU's exist and will be sold into retail (these will run hotter and require more cooling at any given speed). In the past this just meant that those unlucky enough to have bought the below average GPU's did not see the card boosting as much, but at least got the guaranteed minimum base clock at all times.

With 290/290X AMD ARE NOT GUARANTEEING ANY BASE CLOCK which means that people who buy the below average 290X could find their card underclocking itself anywhere from 0-300mhz, this could lead to many more situations where a stock 290 outperforms a 290X (in silent mode that is) and people would not be getting the performance as seen in reviews.

So in essence, the only way to guarantee that you are getting the performance you have paid for is to use uber mode/custom fan profile and ensure the card is not hitting the temperature limit and throttling. Otherwise, those paying £450 for a 290X could if unlucky be getting the same (or less) performance as someone who purchased a 290 for £300 when running in silent mode, which is exactly what Toms experienced.

Yup Basically if the system works and as the Cooler is inadequate, both should be capable of similar performance at quiet mode

 

[LtMatt]

Is it just me or has the 290x/290 release really rattled some feathers?

I think you might be right.

 

[Gregster]

Is it just me or has the 290x/290 release really rattled some cages?

Please explain?

 

[Lokken86]

Handbags at the ready.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

logged this on my last match on bf4. this was my 3rd/4th round so had being playing over an hour before hand, hence the high start temperature. i used msi afterburner but forgot it couldnt log the framerate .
anyway the round was a 64 player conquest on hainan resort and lasted about 30mins.BattleReport

settings - 1080p ultra 4xaa vsync off.
in overdrive i have
+50%power
90deg target temperature
and maximum fan speed is set to 65%(but it doesnt get close!!)

as you can see the 290x has a more or less constant 1000MHz core clock and the temperature never goes above 90degC. also the maximum fan speed was 51-52%. the random dips are when i alt-tabbed to my second monitor to send a message.

Spoiler

the 290x was designed to throttle in silent mode because the fan is capped at 40%. but 50% is enough fan speed to keep the card under 90degC in a game (not furmark). the whole point of silent mode is to sacrifice some performance for a quieter card. i dont use the default uber mode because i want to keep the card under 90deg. all AMD did with the 290/290x is give the USER control of how they want the card to perform.
I apologise for the amateur attempt at a graph

 

[vUNREALv]

Just seems its got everyone arguing, I can't tell if its a case of people having bought nvidia premium cards for excessive prices been a little disappointed or amd fan boys over defending what is a great card for all of us nvida or amd fans, we need cpu's and cards to challenge price/performance of the existing high end stuff otherwise we all pay the prices they dictate with no competition.

I wasn't aiming the comment at anyone specifically just an observation.

 

[LtMatt]

logged this on my last match on bf4. this was my 3rd/4th round so had being playing over an hour before hand, hence the high start temperature. i used msi afterburner but forgot it couldnt log the framerate .
anyway the round was a 64 player conquest on hainan resort and lasted about 30mins.BattleReport

settings - 1080p ultra 4xaa vsync off.
in overdrive i have
+50%power
90deg target temperature
and maximum fan speed is set to 65%(but it doesnt get close!!)

as you can see the 290x has a more or less constant 1000MHz core clock and the temperature never goes above 90degC. also the maximum fan speed was 51-52%. the random dips are when i alt-tabbed to my second monitor to send a message.

Spoiler

the 290x was designed to throttle in silent mode because the fan is capped at 40%. but 50% is enough fan speed to keep the card under 90degC in a game (not furmark). the whole point of silent mode is to sacrifice some performance for a quieter card. i dont use the default uber mode because i want to keep the card under 90deg. all AMD did with the 290/290x is give the USER control of how they want the card to perform.
I apologise for the amateur attempt at a graph

Well done, you nailed it. Perhaps you should become a reviewer for Toms3D.

 

[Lokken86]

An Nvidia owner creates a thread that is not sucking up to AMD and he is accused of being a "Troll and Baiting", yet if you look back through LtMatt's threads, he quite clearly does the same. I am bored of hypocrites and just want things fair.

You can't compare a 7990 (dual chip GFX card) to a single chip Nvidia card (780ti/Titan). There is so many people who play in windowed mode and CF doesn't work that way, CF doesn't work in some games, Micro stutter but for AMD fans, they insist on it being fair??? Am I missing something?

Yes you are missing out price.

As far as i'm concerned you pick a budget, compare the pros and cons of the available choices, and make the purchase. Just because one card may be duel gpu does't mean it can't outperform something of similar value.

You are saying you can't compare a duel gpu to a single gpu because it's 'not fair'. There is no fair!

 

[vUNREALv]

One thing is for sure Gregster both amd and nvidia will be the winners either way they can flog bucket loads of cards and then a year down the line rehash them again for more!

Some of us just have a tendency to get defensive with our purchases, having had both camps for the last 16 years i probably have more love for amd products mainly because i cut my overclocking teeth on them but I have only been disappointed by 1 nvidia card and that was my galaxy glacier 6800gt.

Its human nature to defend what you own. Just enjoy whichever card you've plumped for, if its not doing its job flog it. We shouldn't be doing amd's or nvidia's pr work for them.

 

[kalyyy]

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/are_retail_samples_of_the_r9_290x_clocking_down_too_much.html

 

[Marine-RX179]

I am bored of hypocrites and just want things fair.

Me too. Look at all the pics and videos that people post making fun of 290x's temp to overshadow its performance and likely low price point before proper reviews were even out, vs Gibbo only mentioned the GTX780Ti "hammer" the Titan, and people going head over toes hurrying to post king pics celebrating, when no proper review is out, nor is it clear on the price point or temp yet. And we are being told repeatedly this forum is AMD biased...

 

[DarrenM343]

Its human nature to defend what you own. Just enjoy whichever card you've plumped for, if its not doing its job flog it. We shouldn't be doing amd's or nvidia's pr work for them.

I hate it when people say 'human nature'. I once got into trouble due to someone s lies when they were in a difficult situation and on raising the matter was told "it's human nature to lie to protect yourself", as if it was acceptable. It's like those who who only buy cheap products state that more expensive are a waste of money. Ie, Ford vs BMW, non-organic vs organic, Lidl vs Sainsbury's

I don't disagree with you but some of the humans are able to not to do this by thinking more fairly, more balanced.

 

[vUNREALv]

Yeah mate human nature has a lot to answer for but its here to stay!

 

[Gregster]

Yes you are missing out price.

As far as i'm concerned you pick a budget, compare the pros and cons of the available choices, and make the purchase. Just because one card may be duel gpu does't mean it can't outperform something of similar value.

You are saying you can't compare a duel gpu to a single gpu because it's 'not fair'. There is no fair!

So a Guy/Gal wants the fastest card he can get and from advice here, he gets the 7990 (It is the fastest according to some). His shiny new card turns up and off and he plugs it in/installs drivers/fires up a game... But "what's this?" he shouts at the screen. "I was getting 55 fps with my 7970 and now I am getting 53 fps, surely something is wrong???" It turns out that said card doesn't work in CF with Windowed mode... This is why they should always be compared on an even playing field, because of scenarios like this.

One thing is for sure Gregster both amd and nvidia will be the winners either way they can flog bucket loads of cards and then a year down the line rehash them again for more!

Some of us just have a tendency to get defensive with our purchases, having had both camps for the last 16 years i probably have more love for amd products mainly because i cut my overclocking teeth on them but I have only been disappointed by 1 nvidia card and that was my galaxy glacier 6800gt.

Its human nature to defend what you own. Just enjoy whichever card you've plumped for, if its not doing its job flog it. We shouldn't be doing amd's or nvidia's pr work for them.

I am 43 years old and been around computers since the Spectrum 48K (my speccy is better than your C64) and know all about it but I do get quite animated with fanboys who scream of trolling and baiting when they do no better themselves. I have no probs with anyone who loves their tech and defending their favored vendor, what bugs me is ripping into others who do the same and bending the rules to suit their argument..... seriously is wrong and completely unfair.

This whole thread is highlighting a potential issue, of which I would rather know (I had the same with the Titan throttling in Valley) but the defence/attacks are a joke.

 

[Uncle Petey]

Greg, you know I love you and all that, but haven't you done your own fair share of pro Nvidia trolling and baiting?

I know you're just kidding around though and the same goes for Matt's quote that you just posted.

 

[tommybhoy]

An Nvidia owner creates a thread that is not sucking up to AMD and he is accused of being a "Troll and Baiting", yet if you look back through LtMatt's threads, he quite clearly does the same. I am bored of hypocrites and just want things fair.

You can't compare a 7990 (dual chip GFX card) to a single chip Nvidia card (780ti/Titan). There is so many people who play in windowed mode and CF doesn't work that way, CF doesn't work in some games, Micro stutter but for AMD fans, they insist on it being fair??? Am I missing something?

The thread had one intention and it's mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned.

There was no outcry when it was picked up on Kepler ages ago.

It's getting tiresome as well when opinions differ to individuals that the forum is labelled as Amd fanboy bias.

The 7990 is a valid comparison due to price/performance, I fail to see why not as there will probably be a very high ratio of users using 79 CF/6 series Sli over single Titan/original 780 price point solutions-the 7990 threads are evidence enough.