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AMD Bulldozer Finally!

Martini1991 said:
I wish people would stop throwing optimized about.


Performance scaling with threads isn't an exact science, the other threads may only be doing small work loads, while others are doing the main work.
Which is why a 2500k stands its ground in those app's too in comparison to the 8150.

EDIT : The fact it doesn't win in most 8 threaded app's is a problem with the CPU, not the software. However, there could be some gain if Module's 1,2,3,4's first thread each deals with the bigger load, with the secondary thread on each module the smaller load (I suppose you could call that optimising, it's what the 2600k does in effect).
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lets just we and see. nobody here works for amd, or is a cpu tech.

just one last thing afew month ago before the benchmarks, your the one who said BD would outperform intels 2500/2600k in 8 thread apps. this is also my point nobody know the future. nobody knows what amd will do. it's all guessing
 
gareth170 said:
lets just we and see. nobody here works for amd, or is a cpu tech.

just one last thing afew month ago before the benchmarks, your the one who said BD would outperform intels 2500/2600k in 8 thread apps. this is also my point nobody know the future. nobody knows what amd will do. it's all guessing
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I said in any situation you'd opt for 8 threads the FX8150 should be faster.
But I never anticipated it would have lower IPC than Deneb now did I? If it had IPC higher than Deneb, it would have been faster. If I'd came and said "Oh, IPC lower than Phenom II", you lot would have went crazy, anyone suggesting it was Phenom II IPC got flamed, I went for an optimistic viewpoint.

That's not a flaw of my opinion, but rather AMD released a CPU worse than I'd imagined, I even said that was worse case scenario, but it's worse than that.

When it actually came down to it, when more details were released, what did I say? Compare an FX6100 to an 1100T in Fritz, you'd be shocked, and people are, I figured they'd be the same, not worse.
It's an educated guess.
An 8 core lynfield CPU would kill an i7 2600k in 8 threaded app's, that's what I was hoping BD would be, possibly a little slower.
 
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mmj_uk said:
My point is if AMD didn't offer any kind of upgrade programme for a chip released with a fatal flaw (which they degraded performance to fix) they aren't going to give gareth a free upgrade when the new revision (Bulldozer II?) comes out just because the first one is a bit underwhelming.
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a new revision wouldn't be Bulldozer II...

its like the phenom II c2 to c3.
 
gareth170 said:
a new revision wouldn't be Bulldozer II...

its like the phenom II c2 to c3.
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Not necessarily, they could have just given Phenom II a new stepping and stayed with the Phenom name but chose not to.

Given the reputation that Bulldozer now has I wouldn't be surprised if any new revision that significantly improves on it is Bulldozer II.
 
Martini1991 said:
I said in any situation you'd opt for 8 threads the FX8150 should be faster.
But I never anticipated it would have lower IPC than Deneb now did I? If it had IPC higher than Deneb, it would have been faster. If I'd came and said "Oh, IPC lower than Phenom II", you lot would have went crazy, anyone suggesting it was Phenom II IPC got flamed, I went for an optimistic viewpoint.

That's not a flaw of my opinion, but rather AMD released a CPU worse than I'd imagined, I even said that was worse case scenario, but it's worse than that.

When it actually came down to it, when more details were released, what did I say? Compare an FX6100 to an 1100T in Fritz, you'd be shocked, and people are, I figured they'd be the same, not worse.
It's an educated guess.
An 8 core lynfield CPU would kill an i7 2600k in 8 threaded app's, that's what I was hoping BD would be, possibly a little slower.
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this is why im saying lets just we and see. nobody here works for amd, or is a cpu tech. nobody knows the future. nobody knows what amd will do. it's all just guessing
 
gareth170 said:
this is why im saying lets just we and see. nobody here works for amd, or is a cpu tech. nobody knows the future. nobody knows what amd will do. it's all just guessing
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JF-AMD works for AMD, but I wouldn't trust anything he says :p

mmj_uk said:
Not necessarily, they could have just given Phenom II a new stepping and stayed with the Phenom name but chose not to.

Given the reputation that Bulldozer now has I wouldn't be surprised if any new revision that significantly improves on it is Bulldozer II.
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I'm a little confused?
C3 was a change to Phenom II, not Phenom?
It's what took the 965 from 140W to 125W.
 
mmj_uk said:
Not necessarily, they could have just given Phenom II a new stepping and stayed with the Phenom name but chose not to.

Given the reputation that Bulldozer now has I wouldn't be surprised if any new revision that significantly improves on it is Bulldozer II.
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but the reason why they done Phenom II is because it was a new platform, ddr3 ect,

c2 and c3 are Phenom II
 
bd may have been ahead in some benchmarks but whether its a software issue, bios issue, pairing it with certain mobo all too much to do to just get good benchmarks, when with Intel at the moment you just plug play oc job done.
 
Martini1991 said:
JF-AMD works for AMD, but I wouldn't trust anything he says :p
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When you see how much stick he gets from stupid people where he gives his free time I don't blame him from keeping away.
Here's his post from Anandtech forums.

o here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.



In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

This is not a case of me lying, this is a case of me being wrong. And that happens to all of us. There is no way that I would intentionally say something that I did not believe to be true because a.) the interenet is a permanent record and b.) eventually you'll have to answer to those comments.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Since the launch I haven't really been in any forums because I was in Seattle all week with MSFT. Once the product launched, I started receiving lots of hate mail. If I had a dollar for every message that used the word **** I would have enough money to buy myself a bulldozer server.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

I was doing this on my own time, it was not part of my job. And because of that, I don't really feel compelled to take any more abuse.

All of the statements that I have made at the time were statements that I believed to be true. I am no more a liar than Paul Otellini when he said IB would ship in Q4. He is not a liar, he is giving the best information he has at the time and things change. If you are going to extend courtesy to others when their statements don't pan out, you should do that with everyone.

Thanks to exarkun and some of the others that have had a reasonable response in all of this. Too many people were waiting to attack, it's almost like they don't really care, maybe they just like to fight.
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http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2198385&page=5
 
@ Gareth.
To address my opinion, it was mostly right.

The 8150, in the majority of 8 threaded app's does beat the 2500k, and in some cases it can and does beat the 2600k.

In app's that don't, it can be as I've explained, the secondary thread on a module is working on a heavier load, which decreases its ability to perform, by the heavier loads being executed by the first thread on the module, and the lower loads being executed by the second thread, it could increase performance (Possibly besting the 2600k, or at least making it closer) However, it could simply be the 8150 isn't "fast" enough.

In cinebench, I think the design is just falling flat on its face, take the Single threaded score. I said scaling would be about 80% in a module, in Cinebench, unlike every other CPU, it's much lower, which I think is due to the module design approach.


Which is why I hate theory talk, my opinion was sound, yet the practically was different in some cases, which is why I stick to practical.
Elevon said:
When you see how much stick he gets from stupid people where he gives his free time I don't blame him from keeping away.
Here's his post from Anandtech forums.
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The guy wasn't a low down AMD member here, he knew exactly how it'd perform, yet chose to say the IPC had increased when it had not, he put down those against "What he knew".
It's a PR spin.
Remember, he also put down every leak as fake, we now know they weren't as performance is the same.
gareth170 said:
i forgot about them. i guess im getting old 30 yesterday lol
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Lol, I just turned 20 earlier in the week, belated Happy Birthday.
 
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Adam_101 said:
bd may have been ahead in some benchmarks but whether its a software issue, bios issue, pairing it with certain mobo all too much to do to just get good benchmarks, when with Intel at the moment you just plug play oc job done.
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True, but you get similar stuff with most brand new architectures. Which is why I've finally decided to just order an SB system, and tragedy of the commons be damned. Always have the opportunity to sell it off and get a Piledriver rig in the future :)
 
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