AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

Twinz · 13 Oct 2021 at 02:44

A better CPU helps when it's the CPU holding back performance. GPU's are usually the limiting factor at 4k with current high-end CPU's so I wouldn't expect much uplift from an improved CPU at 4k. (At least not with current gen GPU's)

KompuKare · 13 Oct 2021 at 07:12

To show the best uplift they really should have used a 3090 because compared to the 6900 , Nvidia's drivers are more CPU dependent to keep it fed.

If there are any times where a CPU holds back a GPU at 4K it would mostly show in improved minimums. Pity most reviewers mostly concentrate on average FPS. TPU for instance only show minimums on some CPU reviews.

welshrat · 13 Oct 2021 at 08:00

Well this is ideal. will jump on the 5900 with v cache equivalent to replace my 3700x sometime next year. Will give me a good few years with my am4 whilst I wait for am5 to mature.

Troezar · 13 Oct 2021 at 08:23

welshrat said:
Well this is ideal. will jump on the 5900 with v cache equivalent to replace my 3700x sometime next year. Will give me a good few years with my am4 whilst I wait for am5 to mature.

Thinking of something similar, need a GPU first, that might be more difficult!

Aretak · 13 Oct 2021 at 08:55

Purgatory said:
When she did this presentation for the 3D V-Cache what game was that being shown in the video and what resolution and gpu was she using for it ? Same for the slides later they don't state GPU or resolution used..

Because if that is 1080p or worse 720p only and on a 6900xt, I'm a bit worried at higher resolutions the real uplift is a lot less than her 15% average better performance. Where going from 3000 zen2 to 5000 zen3 was a real 19% uplift due to IPC. Anyone have any info on the examples she used and what resolution and GPU was used ?

The game being shown is Gears of War 5. It should really go without saying that you'll only see an uplift in CPU-bound scenarios though. A CPU upgrade doesn't magically make your GPU faster. More faster is always more betterer though. There are plenty of (often) CPU-bound games out there. Far Cry 6 just released and is one. Far Cry 5 was actually one of AMD's examples shown as having one of the biggest gains from the extra cache.

welshrat · 13 Oct 2021 at 09:04

Troezar said:
Thinking of something similar, need a GPU first, that might be more difficult!

Yeah the 6800 I bought in Feb for £799 is now looking like a bargain all things considered (vega 56 sold for just under £400), This VCache CPU should allow me one more GPU on the AM4 platform assuming prices get reasonable come the end of 2022.

alec · 13 Oct 2021 at 09:11

Purgatory said:
zen2 to 5000 zen3 was a real 19% uplift due to IPC

All these game CPU IPC measurements only make sense in non-GPU limited situations. There is almost nothing a CPU can improve to add FPS when GPU is holding everything back
I think it is safe to trust their numbers on uplift from Vcache.
Games always loved large cache and if they say there is no major added latency, it is a pure win.

jigger · 13 Oct 2021 at 12:34

welshrat said:
Yeah the 6800 I bought in Feb for £799 is now looking like a bargain all things considered (vega 56 sold for just under £400), This VCache CPU should allow me one more GPU on the AM4 platform assuming prices get reasonable come the end of 2022.

I’m hoping graphics prices come down once Intel enters the market and the rerelease RTX 2060 to mop up more mining sales.

Purgatory · 13 Oct 2021 at 17:03

Yes I understand with games that most are gpu bound at 1440p (in some games) and up I am curious what the real world IPC would be on these and single thread performance, wondering if we will actually see a real gain in that. a lot of new games at resolution I use are GPU bound anyways, hoping it will show some real world difference in FS2020 as one of the games and some work related apps, but have a strange feeling we will get a slight bump if any on some apps and that will really make me decide if to update to it or not as said most games will be GPU bound at resolutions I use and AM5 I will probably wait till the second gen cpus come out for that as I don't want to be a beta tester again for new platforms and really got tired of that in the past and DDR5 well we will have to wait and see if the first set of released sticks really make a difference over DDR4 as we have seen in the past there normally isn't a huge bump changing from last gen DDR to first Gen DDR on a new spec.

Also pricing is going to be silly on any motherboard that uses PCIE 5 on all the slots as we are seeing the new Intel platform is really only giving one slot on PCIE 5 and one NVME (I think one NVME PCIE 5 but that may not be right and maybe PCIE 4 still). I would want the whole motherboard to be fully PCIE 5 not just one slot and one NVME slot and for sure these boards will be really expensive when they appear with full PCIE 5 slots and full NVME slots at PCIE 5 and then the costs of DDR5 to add.

g67575 · 14 Oct 2021 at 22:07

*Moved from other thread*

AMD has new AM4 based CPUs with extra L3 Cache (which makes use of 3D chiplet technology) planned. According to AMD, the additional cache amounts to an extra 15% performance boost, vs current Zen 3 CPUs.

"There will a Ryzen product in 2022 that goes into socket AM4 with 3D V-Cache" - AMD spokesman.

Link here:
https://youtu.be/yE9PsKWYYXA?t=514

If it can keep up with Alder Lake's single core performance, and presumably has between 12-16 (large) CPU cores, I think this could give Intel a run for their money. Since Alder Lake CPUs won't be cheap, I don't expect these 3D V-Cache CPUs will be either. I assume the AM4 platform will limit these CPUs to DDR4 RAM.

Later on in 2022, we will likely see Rembrandt APUs, which I suspect will be similar to current Zen 3 APUs, but with RDNA 2 graphics, and maybe improved L3 cache.

cliffy · 14 Oct 2021 at 22:38

g67575 said:
So this news seems to have largely gone unnoticed, so far.

AMD has new AM4 based CPUs with extra L3 Cache (which makes use of 3D chiplet technology) planned. According to AMD, the additional cache amounts to an extra 15% performance boost, vs current Zen 3 CPUs.

"There will a Ryzen product in 2022 that goes into socket AM4 with 3D V-Cache" - AMD spokesman.

Link here:
https://youtu.be/yE9PsKWYYXA?t=514

If it can keep up with Alder Lake's single core performance, and presumably has upto 16 CPU (large) cores, I think this could give Intel a run for their money. Since Alder Lake CPUs won't be cheap, I expect neither will these 3D V-Cache CPUs.

Later on in 2022, we will likely see Rembrandt APUs, which I suspect will be similar to current Zen 3 APUs, but with RDNA 2 graphics, and maybe improved L3 cache.

AM5 is also next year, around Q3

g67575 · 14 Oct 2021 at 22:40

Yup. Probably end of 2022. But the more relevant question for AMD right now is, how do they compete with Intel's Alder Lake?

Drollic · 14 Oct 2021 at 22:47

Unnoticed? There's a 15 page thread on it.

g67575 · 14 Oct 2021 at 22:49

Drollic said:
Unnoticed? There's a 15 page thread on it.

EDIT - Ok, seen it now...

jigger · 14 Oct 2021 at 22:59

The most relevant question is how close can Alderlake get to current Ryzen 5000 and under what scenario.

Intel are playing catch up.

Journey · 14 Oct 2021 at 23:00

Mods - delete this thread it merge it.

g67575 · 14 Oct 2021 at 23:05

jigger said:
The most relevant question is how close can Alderlake get to current Ryzen 5000 and under what scenario.

Intel are playing catch up.

Nah, it's pretty clear that Alder Lake will beat current Zen 3 CPUs, if the IPC rumours are correct. I don't think Intel will be 2 generations behind...

g67575 · 14 Oct 2021 at 23:11

Twinz said:
A better CPU helps when it's the CPU holding back performance. GPU's are usually the limiting factor at 4k with current high-end CPU's so I wouldn't expect much uplift from an improved CPU at 4k. (At least not with current gen GPU's)

Lol, a lot of people go about this the wrong way. Upgrade the graphics card if your GPU utilization is maxed out, its a really simple upgrade (assuming you have a sufficient power supply). Then, upgrade the CPU if your CPU utilization is near 100%...

jigger · 14 Oct 2021 at 23:35

g67575 said:
Nah, it's pretty clear that Alder Lake will beat current Zen 3 CPUs, if the IPC rumours are correct. I don't think Intel will be 2 generations behind...

It’s really not. Alderlake is somewhat of a series of half fixes, pulling together parts that have previously struggled and failed as stand alone products.

The Gracemont Atom cores will have poor IPC but better power efficiency than Rocket lake.
The Golden Cove cores will be fast in 4 thread workload but very power hungry in multithread. Orchestrating the Gracemont and Golden Cove clusters will be a huge challenge. Leveraging the full processing power of the whole chip will be impossible.

Joxeon · 14 Oct 2021 at 23:55

jigger said:
It’s really not. Alderlake is somewhat of a series of half fixes, pulling together parts that have previously struggled and failed as stand alone products.

The Gracemont Atom cores will have poor IPC but better power efficiency than Rocket lake.
The Golden Cove cores will be fast in 4 thread workload but very power hungry in multithread. Orchestrating the Gracemont and Golden Cove clusters will be a huge challenge. Leveraging the full processing power of the whole chip will be impossible.

Isn't AMD is planning a big little design with Zen 5 though so it can't be that bad?.