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AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design
- Thread starter RavenXXX2
- Start date
If 3nm is delayed though the knock on effect is Apple can't move to that node and being TSMCs largest customer I doubt TSMC is going to limit Apples 5nm silicon as a double whammy to make room for AMD.
It's probably already wrote into the contract that if TSMC has delays in moving to a new node like 3nm that Apple can continue with their allocation of 5nm until it's ready.
Soldato
If 3nm really is going to be a problem then somebody will have to move to the design-compatible 4nm. It's not outside the realms of possibility that AMD could switch their entire 5nm stack to 4nm since it's not in full production yet, although they'll have to redo all the tape ins, tape outs and whatnot. But then that means Apple won't be on the leading edge node, which might be an ego-buster for them, and they'll do the move.
Soldato
It's highly unlikely that any contract will be written that way, as when you sign a contract many years in advance both parties are committing to the capacity not only being provided but assigned to them. Picture it the other way around, where there is massive oversupply in wafers, and AMD/Apple just nah we don't want them now, the result being TSMC lose out which can't happen without a massive financial penalty. If the capacity isn't available when the contracted supply is due they may have a carry forward agreement, or a cancellation option with a limited penalty to either or both parties.
If Apple can't move then they will have to make do with what they have bought, and if they have no contingency I'd be very surprised, look at what happened to Nvidia having to move to Samsung.
I can't see Apple not having a clause wrote in especially as delays are expected at the bleeding edge. AMD may also have to accept the possibility of delays which prevent supply being freed up in thier contracts as they are not the biggest customer so can't call the shots.
Maybe it's the fear of a long delay that sparked the rumours of AMD ditching TSMC for Samsung that were doing the rounds a couple of months back.
AMD are the second biggest on volume and first across all nodes. Intel are intent on gaining Apples business. I’d say AMD are in a strong position. Plus AMD will have picked up all of the Xilinx production at TSMC and are growing rapidly.
Apple is around 26% vs AMDs 5% of TSMCs business and that's a big difference, TSMC can't afford to upset Apple.
Xilinx is likely to be further down the queue than AMD, besides I cant see AMD cannibalising Xilinx allocation for their own, imagine Nvidia tried taking a chunk of ARMs allocation... Not happening.
AMD is TSMC second largest customer. Last time I looked AMD was around 10% and growing. To that, you would have to add the Xilinx production and possibly the 6-4nm production AMD are supposedly working on.
Soldato
I don't think you are following, if TSMC signed a contract to supply a certain number of wafers on a node to AMD, and that node is in full swing (mature), then TSMC would need to pay AMD if they chose to breach the contract in favour of another customer. Do you honestly think AMD would sign a contract saying they could have their supply constrained, or stolen by another customer through no fault of their own?
If Apple don't have an alternate supplier, what happens if TSMC was blown up/destroyed/flooded/banned, Apple will have contingency to either stick to 5nm, or have an alternate supplier.
Soldato
I would say apple have a plan B for sure. Agree with @Journey though, nowadays contracts are far more entwined and scrutinised than you may think.
TSMC could add what ever delay clauses they like in AMDs contracts as AMD relies on TSMC more than TSMC does AMD, what's AMD going to do? Go back to glo flo, jump on board with Samsung or maybe see if Intel can manufacture their chips... I think you underestimate the power that TSMC have right now.
Associate
Apple are using the N4 process for their new processors next yesr and 3nm in 2023 so i can't see what the problem is.
Soldato
Yes now, not in 2017-19 when the contracts would have been signed for future capacity needs, agreements aren't made a week before release you know?
Best leave it here for now, as I can't agree with anything you state about this, it is going around in circles as you clearly don't understand how contracts work.
TSMC are important because they have AMD as a customer and AMD are the only company that can compete with Intel.
Regardless of what AMD’s deal is with TSMC is AMD are an important part of TSMC’s strategy and Intel are looking to take business away from TSMC.
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Associate
- Joined
- 22 Nov 2020
- Posts
- 5
Quoted 4 the truth.
Probably not. If the Chinese did take Taiwan they wouldn’t head straight for TSMC. It would likely be business as usual for sometime and the likes of AMD and Apple would withdraw slowly. However any Chinese invasion of Taiwan is not happening anytime soon, if at all.
I was hoping some some crazy leaked benchmarks by now. AMD are better at keeping secrets than Intel though, far less leaks in general.
The rumours of the 12900KS surprised me a bit, I thought they'd already pushed the Alder Lake design to it's limits with the 12900K. It definitely seems like an E-Peen edition (purely to say AMD doesn't quite have the performance crown with their Zen3D series), and does make me wonder how many will actually be produced.
I wonder if the temps will be stupidly high, like 100 Celsius plus - That's what the 12900K gets if overclocked to 5Ghz or above (except if high end water cooling is used, I assume).
I wonder if the temps will be stupidly high, like 100 Celsius plus - That's what the 12900K gets if overclocked to 5Ghz or above (except if high end water cooling is used, I assume).