AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

[Joxeon]

It will probably be a limited run though and restricted to the higher end / core count products as I doubt these will be cheap to make so can't see them adding Vcache to a 6 core then having to charge £400 for it.

 

[humbug]

For floating point workloads, which Cinema 4D and Blender, ecte.... are, it should translate.

Its probably an indication that if true this Alder Lake performance should also translate to gaming.

However, two things.

#1, if there is some AVX hackery going on here to explain that performance in Cinebench it will not translate to games.

#2, as well all know Gaming is sensitive to intecore communication, Despite Rocket Lake having a 20% higher IPC than Coffee Lake the gaming performance is at best identical, because the Ring Bus in Rocket Lake is no faster than the one in Coffee Lake.
Now here is the thing, a lot of people don't realise this but Zen 3 intecore communication is significantly faster than Intel's Ring Bus, that's why in some games where the CPU really is the one doing all the work you're seeing up to 35% higher performance on Zen 3 vs Rocket / Coffee Lake.

I knew there was a slide for this somewhere....

Another big improvement has been made to core to core communication. Here the small 7nm Zen 3 core complex die featuring a single 8-core CCX blows the much larger 10700K die out of the water, reducing core latency by as much as 44%.

Its nothing to do with the size of the die, Steve. That's midwit logic. if that was true the i3 10100 would have much better intercore latency, same 7700K... it doesn't. midwit

 

[LePhuronn]

It will probably be a limited run though and restricted to the higher end / core count products as I doubt these will be cheap to make so can't see them adding Vcache to a 6 core then having to charge £400 for it.

Well that's the beauty of chiplets, isn't it. Imagine a whole bunch of 6 core chiplets with v cache that don't quite live up to 5900XT standards...throw them in trash, or sell them as two 5600XTs?

I think the XT refresh, for lack of a better name, will depend entirely on yields. Supposedly TSMC's stacking technology can handle up to 12 layers and is mature enough that stacking a single layer, i.e. cache to a Ryzen chiplet, is almost trivial. So given the maturity of the 7nm node and the "ease" of stacking some cache, if these new chiplets hit 5900XT and 5950XT standards, there's nothing "failing" to be repurposed for a 5600XT or 5800XT. The XT refresh then is restricted to the top SKUs for bragging rights and knocking out Alder Lake given Intel are making comparisons to the 5950X.

If the v cache chiplets don't fully meet top SU standards then the XT refresh will be all SKUs because the 5600XT and 5800XT will take on the lesser quality silicon.

Or Threadripper 5000 gets everything that doesn't make a desktop Ryzen, which is why Threadripper 5000 is so late to the party.

 

[alec]

Alder Lake Cinebench R20 Leak is 810 Points ST

Have we seen an actual screenshot or were these projected numbers from lower clock ES? May be too early to panic, especially considering Alder Lake is not getting out smoothly, non-K models pushed to 2022
Regardless, Intel heavily tunes for 1-core boost clock, because 5.X GHz looks good. At 3-4-6 threads (low gaming loads) it will drop back a lot.

 

[humbug]

Have we seen an actual screenshot or were these projected numbers from lower clock ES? May be too early to panic, especially considering Alder Lake is not getting out smoothly, non-K models pushed to 2022
Regardless, Intel heavily tunes for 1-core boost clock, because 5.X GHz looks good. At 3-4-6 threads (low gaming loads) it will drop back a lot.

I haven't seen any screenshots, so speculation.

 

[NinjaCool]

Some bits of info about AMD's 3D V-Cache.
https://www.techpowerup.com/285307/amd-zen-3-3d-vertical-cache-detailed-some-more

"Apparently, it expands the CCD's L3 cache, and doesn't serve as an "L4" victim cache to the L3. This way, the cache setup remains transparent to the OS, which sees it as a contiguous 96 MB block of L3 cache (per CCD)"

Spoiler: Info/Image

 

[subbytna]

really, intel did that. if that kind of thing is going on then its just awful from a very wealthy large company

Jeez welcome to 2021 lol. INTEL have been doing this for a long time. Nvidia too.

 

[KompuKare]

Some bits of info about AMD's 3D V-Cache.
https://www.techpowerup.com/285307/amd-zen-3-3d-vertical-cache-detailed-some-more

"Apparently, it expands the CCD's L3 cache, and doesn't serve as an "L4" victim cache to the L3. This way, the cache setup remains transparent to the OS, which sees it as a contiguous 96 MB block of L3 cache (per CCD)"

Spoiler: Info/Image

The image is interesting, but that it isn't a L4 cache and becomes transparent to the OS was already known.
This does meant the cache controller on the main die has to have been design like this from the beginning. That's mostly a given but rules out any last minute changes (yes, there is a new Zen 3 CCD stepping which might have fixed issues with this, but the design must go back years).

 

[dave28]

Jeez welcome to 2021 lol. INTEL have been doing this for a long time. Nvidia too.

And Govenments give them lucrative contracts with tax payers money such as the MET office who use Dell/Intel or at least they did when i worked for them for 10 years.

 

[timorous]

if these new chiplets hit 5900XT and 5950XT standards, there's nothing "failing" to be repurposed for a 5600XT or 5800XT

I expect that anything that does not make the 5900X/5950X grade could be used in EPYC or Threadripper to keep margins up.

 

[Squink]

I skimmed this thread but found no solid info on when these potential new variants of zen-3 will appear.

Is it 'safe' to buy a 5900X now? If something better comes along in 4-6 months I can handle it. If that 'something better' arrives next month, it would not be so good.

 

[Hotwired]

I skimmed this thread but found no solid info on when these potential new variants of zen-3 will appear.

Is it 'safe' to buy a 5900X now? If something better comes along in 4-6 months I can handle it. If that 'something better' arrives next month, it would not be so good.

"later this year" is all anyone has.

 

[Squink]

"later this year" is all anyone has.

Always the way

 

[LePhuronn]

"later this year" is all anyone has.

if anybody is saying "later this year" then they weren't paying attention to the keynote and the demo. Lisa Su said "going into production end of this year".

Don't expect these variants until Q1 next year. I'm expecting CES reveal, sale in February, stock shortages and scalpocalypse until June. By which time Zen 4 is starting to hot up.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

if anybody is saying "later this year" then they weren't paying attention to the keynote and the demo. Lisa Su said "going into production end of this year".

Don't expect these variants until Q1 next year. I'm expecting CES reveal, sale in February, stock shortages and scalpocalypse until June. By which time Zen 4 is starting to hot up.

Yeah at that point may as well just wait for Zen 4 since it will be released well under a year after Zen 3+ or whatever, and a nice 30-40% jump from current stuff.

 

[jigger]

Apparently Intel has abandoned 3D it’s stacking technology for the foreseeable.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...te-rapids-sp-as-amd-already-works-on-milan-x/

 

[humbug]

Apparently Intel has abandoned 3D it’s stacking technology for the foreseeable.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...te-rapids-sp-as-amd-already-works-on-milan-x/

WTF?

Intel: We need 3D stacking technology.
AMD: We are already doing it.
Intel: Oh... well #### it then can't be bothered.

Really Intel? Really??

 

[Steampunk]

WTF?

Intel: We need 3D stacking technology.
AMD: We are already doing it.
Intel: Oh... well #### it then can't be bothered.

Really Intel? Really??

They may have decided that going down a risky path only to fail was not worth it. Better to stick with something less cutting edge that they have a chance of executing such as 7nm.

 

[jigger]

WTF?

Intel: We need 3D stacking technology.
AMD: We are already doing it.
Intel: Oh... well #### it then can't be bothered.

Really Intel? Really??

We know focus is GPU’s over the next 5+ Years but yeah, it’s probably going to get rough on the CPU front for a while.

 

[smilingcrow]

If I was an Intel shareholder I would be relieved.
Considering the crisis the company is in at the manufacturing level, when I look at the complexity of some of their future designs, it just looks very risky to introduce them all in a short time scale.
They need to learn from the mistake of being over ambitious, as they were with the initial 10nm node and focus on getting stuff out the door.
A half decent product is better than none.