AMD freesync coming soon, no extra costs.... shocker

[Silent_Scone]

It's quite hilarious how badly the very usual culprits are squirming around.

It's not Toshiba's technology, Toshiba have merely implemented a proposed Vesa standard which ANYONE can do at any time, this feature works because it is ALREADY IMPLEMENTED IN THE DRIVER. This will ALREADY WORK on any screen that implements this feature, this worked because this has already been in drivers.

AMD/Vesa are all surprised by it because as I suggested might be the case months ago, Nvidia were simply aware of an up and coming technology, decided to jump the gun and rather than wait for the natural progression of Asus's new screens(and everyone elses) implementing this, have struck a deal to use an Nvidia chip allowing Nvidia to lock their own users in.

from Tech Report


There are few monitors that support it, like every single new feature. Can it be added through firmware updates, possibly but lets think about who that benefits.... the end user, great, but the manufacturer? So they can sell you a new freesync compatible screen or enable a great option for free which will make them zero money...... I don't hold high hopes on that one

I expect when a decent gaming desktop screen is released that supports the Vesa feature, AMD will tell gamers about freesync. Till some desktop screens support it, what is the point of shouting at the rooftop about it?

For the record, my somewhat gloaty "lol Nvidia" opening post wasn't aimed remotely at Nvidia, but at the people on here who basically ganged up together to tell me how much I hate Nvidia and how wrong I am because I dare suggest AMD, and Intel and everyone else(because that is so pro AMD) will have this for free because it's a painfully basic idea that Nvidia can't possibly patent, that will end up as another lock in Nvidia feature. I got pure rubbish constantly thrown back at me for nothing but realistic posts about the future of freesync and what it means for Nvidia users.

You're just twisting the truth, they're the first company to use this feature and I'm very much assuming it's incorperated into the scaler, (so part of the panel) and implement it within their LCDs. Standards get proposed every day. You seem to be on the assumption that the two technologies are the same too with the little info, and you took the opportunity from a CES stand which shows a 30FPS demo with VBLANK alteration to slate G-Sync. That makes you a bit of a weapon frankly. And no walls of text will change that

Also, free VESA standards are exactly that, and by law I cannot see how Nvidia would be able to incorporate it into G-Sync and charge for it if they were fundamentally the same.

 

[Jeps]

From that techreport article

"There's even a proposed VESA specification for dynamic refresh"

So it isn't a VESA standard yet which is why most displays don't support it. They mention that it might be able to be implemented via a firmware update but I highly doubt that. Even if it is, how many monitor manufacturers issue and support firmware updates?

If that's the case, you will need a new monitor for freesync so it isn't really free. You wont be locked into NVidia though so I guess you have the freedom to change gpu brands whenever you want which is nice. I imagine Nvidia are using a hardware solution because they are implementing dynamic refresh on displays that do not support it natively.

 

[drunkenmaster]

You're just twisting the truth, they're the first company to use this feature and implement it within their LCDs. Standards get proposed every day. You seem to be on the assumption that the two technologies are the same too with the little info, and you took the opportunity from a CES stand which shows a 30FPS demo with VBLANK alteration to slate G-Sync. That makes you a bit of a weapon frankly. And no walls of text will change that

I'm twisting what truth exactly? Firstly where did I slate g-sync? Second, how is claiming it's Toshiba's technology in referring to AMD driver support and a proposed Vesa standard(which would make it industry wide) make it Toshiba's technology.

Not strictly true as the Toshiba panels they're demonstrating are able to make VBLANK adjustments. However at this stage I would definitely tend to agree with it being a publicity stunt - especially give its Toshiba's technology they're demonstrating. So it's free to people who haven't paid for it when buying the notebook in question LOL.

Yeah, your intention is not clear at all.


Here's a hint for those arguing over if freesync is free or not. When you have a monitor that normally costs $300, now costing $500 to support g-sync, for the SAME monitor, that is not free. When you get a future version that is $300 and supports freesync, but not g-sync, yes, that is free.

Someone even decided to point out freesync isn't free because monitor makers have to pay for membership to Vesa.......


Yes, I'm the one twisting the truth, and we know nothing about freesync at all, except every article on it says it did what g-sync does and made the demo smooth "fixing" for want of a better word, the issues with v-sync. We don't know for certain precisely how g-sync works internally, but that's okay. But when AMD show the same thing on a different demo showing the same improvement we don't know enough about it?

Except we know it will be free, it gives the same effect as g-sync, it will be adopted in the future by more monitor makers, it won't add $200 cost to a monitor. What more do you need to know, precisely, about freesync that you know precisely about g-sync?

Lastly, do you have any information to back up your claim that Toshiba were the first company to implement it? I haven't seen that claimed anywhere, though it could be true, however to claim that it's Toshiba's technology is still absurd.

 

[Silent_Scone]

I'm twisting what truth exactly? Firstly where did I slate g-sync? Second, how is claiming it's Toshiba's technology in referring to AMD driver support and a proposed Vesa standard(which would make it industry wide) make it Toshiba's technology.

Twisting -

Toshibia's panels - not AMDs

VESA standard - implemented by Toshiba.

Ok so Toshiba may not own the technology but if you want to get hung up on that then I guess we need to get back to how it's going to combat G-Sync.


So you've just said it gives the same effect as G-Sync, having not seen either - and not knowing enough about how G-Syncs scaler works. That's a lot of nonsense for a 'I told you so' thread.

I'll do some twisting of my own. You're saying that Nvidia have purchased this particular standard and then sold it as their own?


Really? Really DrunkenMaster?

 

[Final8y]

From that techreport article

"There's even a proposed VESA specification for dynamic refresh"

So it isn't a VESA standard yet which is why most displays don't support it. They mention that it might be able to be implemented via a firmware update but I highly doubt that. Even if it is, how many monitor manufacturers issue and support firmware updates?

If that's the case, you will need a new monitor for freesync so it isn't really free. You wont be locked into NVidia though so I guess you have the freedom to change gpu brands whenever you want which is nice. I imagine Nvidia are using a hardware solution because they are implementing dynamic refresh on displays that do not support it natively.

Free as in the feature will not come in as extra cost when you buy the associated product, just like when you get a free bag of haribo or free games with some products.

 

[humbug]

Twisting -

Toshibia's panels - not AMDs

VESA standard - implemented by Toshiba.


So you've just said it gives the same effect as G-Sync, having not seen either - and not knowing enough about how G-Syncs scaler works. That's a lot of nonsense for a 'I told you so' thread.

Why not just be happy with what journalists having seen it describe as the same effect as G-Sync only without the need to buy Screens that cost $150 or whatever it is more than it should.

And who gives a #### about who owns it or where it comes from, why is that important?

 

[drunkenmaster]

Twisting -

Toshibia's panels - not AMDs

VESA standard - implemented by Toshiba.

Where did I say they were AMD's panels, where did I say it was AMD technology, Vesa standard, implemented by Toshiba, how does this indicate Toshiba technology, this precisely indicates Toshiba using someone elses technology. Are you sure it's even a Toshiba panel?

 

[LtMatt]

I'm twisting what truth exactly? Firstly where did I slate g-sync? Second, how is claiming it's Toshiba's technology in referring to AMD driver support and a proposed Vesa standard(which would make it industry wide) make it Toshiba's technology.



Yeah, your intention is not clear at all.


Here's a hint for those arguing over if freesync is free or not. When you have a monitor that normally costs $300, now costing $500 to support g-sync, for the SAME monitor, that is not free. When you get a future version that is $300 and supports freesync, but not g-sync, yes, that is free.

Someone even decided to point out freesync isn't free because monitor makers have to pay for membership to Vesa.......


Yes, I'm the one twisting the truth, and we know nothing about freesync at all, except every article on it says it did what g-sync does and made the demo smooth "fixing" for want of a better word, the issues with v-sync. We don't know for certain precisely how g-sync works internally, but that's okay. But when AMD show the same thing on a different demo showing the same improvement we don't know enough about it?

Except we know it will be free, it gives the same effect as g-sync, it will be adopted in the future by more monitor makers, it won't add $200 cost to a monitor. What more do you need to know, precisely, about freesync that you know precisely about g-sync?

Lastly, do you have any information to back up your claim that Toshiba were the first company to implement it? I haven't seen that claimed anywhere, though it could be true, however to claim that it's Toshiba's technology is still absurd.

Why not just be happy with what journalists having seen it describe as the same effect as G-Sync only without the need to buy Screens that cost $150 or whatever it is more than it should.

And who gives a #### about who owns it or where it comes from, why is that important?

Surely you must know the answer to that question.

 

[MrMarvelous]

Excellent. So not only do we have Mantle but this as well, for free.

NVidia can go suck one on their crappy Tegra platform that no one cares about.

 

[Silent_Scone]

because my original point was AMD are saying it's free, when technically it's not as you're purchasing a new notebook with the technology implemented, although the joke was implied with Laugh Out Loud.

You're getting hung up on my choice of words because you don't have the foggiest as to how to compare it to G-Sync.

Do you think it's a case that Nvidia have patented a VESA standard then? Is that what you're implying. Because at the core of it that is what it boils down to. More conspiracy and theories from the Red front.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Twisting -

Toshibia's panels - not AMDs

VESA standard - implemented by Toshiba.

Ok so Toshiba may not own the technology but if you want to get hung up on that then I guess we need to get back to how it's going to combat G-Sync.


So you've just said it gives the same effect as G-Sync, having not seen either - and not knowing enough about how G-Syncs scaler works. That's a lot of nonsense for a 'I told you so' thread.

I'll do some twisting of my own. You're saying that Nvidia have purchased this particular standard and then sold it as their own?


Really? Really DrunkenMaster?

I'll have to quote again as you edited.

Firstly, again the twisting thing, I didn't twist anything, the claims of things I never said don't mean I'm twisting words. I did not suggest these were AMD panels, I did not claim it was AMD technology, YOU claimed it was Toshiba technology, even though I bet you don't know if Toshiba are even using their own panel. It's an AMD driver and an AMD chip that are part of the solution that make freesync work, but I only said that the driver and hardware implementation of AMD's, is AMD's technology. SO once again when asked what I was twisting, you made something up that I didn't say.

As for the g-sync vs freesync thing. Again where did I claim to know how the g-sync scalar worked. Did I say I'd see either, no but all the articles based on freesync are written by people who have seen both, and THEY say it gives the same effect. I said EFFECT, I did not say same technology, I did not say same method, I said nothing of the sort. I said same effect because people who have seen it in person have said it gives the same effect.

99.999999% of people on this forum have not seen g-sync in anything but video, I have seen g-sync AND freesync in video. I didn't see you having a go at Nvidia users who like the effect of g-sync who haven't actually seen it in person......... funny that.

Lastly, you implied I had twisted something which makes it okay for you to make crap up, no I neither said Nvidia sold a Vesa standard as their own, in fact you'll find I have in most g-sync threads said something vastly different.

Making up things I didn't say then accusing me of (twisting)lying, is actually just you lying, then using your lying as an excuse to lie further, makes you a bigger liar... nothing else.

 

[Silent_Scone]

You're clutching at straws with the Toshiba thing. Toshiba normally out source to LG, not always but in some cases. However the scalers are made by smaller firms in the middle east so you're just going around in circles there with the text walls.

Wait, so it's an AMD chip that's doing it now? Oh well that's new. What chip is that? Or are you talking about the display engine.

I asked you whether or not you thought Nvidia are using a VESA standard as their own, if that is not the case, then it cannot be fundamentally the same technology as you're implying in your gouging OP.

Both maybe need to be seen along side each other before you applaud your own bashing in that case buddy

I'm a liar etc. Keep digging.


Maybe we'll see Nvidia cards making use of the new panels in that case, with no need for a G-Sync scaler. Maybe then there will be some truth to your prophecy lol.

 

[Woden]

Excellent. So not only do we have Mantle but this as well, for free.

NVidia can go suck one on their crappy Tegra platform that no one cares about.

We have neither, we will get mantle but only may get freesync.

Mantle is an unknown, we do not know real-world performance or how well it will be adopted by developers.

Freesync might be adopted by Vesa, which might be supported by AMD at some point. But then as an open standard it might be supported by NVIDIA too.

 

[humbug]

because my original point was AMD are saying it's free, when technically it's not as you're purchasing a new notebook with the technology implemented, although the joke was implied with Laugh Out Loud.

You're getting hung up on my choice of words because you don't have the foggiest as to how to compare it to G-Sync.

Do you think it's a case that Nvidia have patented a VESA standard then? Is that what you're implying. Because at the core of it that is what it boils down to. More conspiracy and theories from the Red front.

Free or not your arguing semantics, its quite ridicules, Technically it is free because it does not require extra costs for external hardware.
or maybe its not if your existing monitor is not compatible and the Vendor is not released a Firmware update.
Thats what it boils down to, big deal. its better than spending $150 extra and then being locked into it.
Wouldn't you agree?

We know as much about it as we do G-Sync, as much as journalists reporting on them, they say it appears to have the same effect.

We may also know that what Nvidia are achieving with Said $150 external hardware, AMD are already doing on the GPU its self.

 

[Suarez7]

lol nice to see humbug still doesn't know the difference between ridicules and ridiculous.

 

[LtMatt]

lol nice to see humbug still doesn't know the difference between ridicules and ridiculous.

He's been using it here as an alternative for the proper word for a long time, so its not actually an error.

EDIT

Otherwise Rusty would have pulled him up on it ages ago!

 

[Suarez7]

He's been using it here as an alternative for the proper word for a long time, so its not actually an error.

It isn't an alternative it makes no sense.

 

[drunkenmaster]

You're clutching at straws with the Toshiba thing. Toshiba normally out source to LG, not always but in some cases. However the scalers are made by smaller firms in the middle east so you're just going around in circles there with the text walls.

I asked you whether or not you thought Nvidia are using a VESA standard as their own, if that is not the case, then it cannot be fundamentally the same technology as you're implying in your gouging OP.

Both maybe need to be seen along side each other before you applaud your own bashing in that case buddy

I'm a liar etc. Keep digging.

You've failed to address any of the things you made up, the bold claims you've made that are incorrect or really anything else.

a very quick recap
1/ you claim it's toshiba technology, not amd's
2/ I call BS
3/you say I'm twisting things
4/ you imply I was saying it was an AMD panel but it's a toshiba panel
5/ i point out I never claimed it was AMD tech, nor an AMD panel but it's rather ridiculous to claim it's toshiba tech when you don't know if it's a toshiba screen.

I'm not clutching at straws, it was pointing out the weakness of YOUR argument. Your counter, as is usual for someone who has nothing to stand on, was to imply this was the basis of my argument... even though you are the one clutching to the idea it's Toshiba tech, not me.

Why would Nvidia patent a Vesa standard, beyond the impossibility of it there is no implication of this, nor accusation from anyone besides, by your own words, you twisting what I've said to imply this.

Nvidia has 3dvision.... nothing in 3dvision isn't an industry standard. A 3dvision screen updates the screen 120 times a second. It's a 120hz screen, nothing more or less. 3dvision is a brand name. You can trademark brand names for pretty much any technology you want.

The same way almost every tv manufacturer has a different name for their 100/200hz implementations. Sony call it truevision, Panasonic call it "football that is less sucky to watch". Trademarks for almost identical technology from multiple companies is incredibly common, in fact pretty much industry standard. I have consistently said that this is what I believe g-sync will eventually end up has, identical hardware 6 months from now, Nvidia call it one name on their feature list, AMD call it something else, Intel call it something else.

EDIT:- disclaimer, I made up these brand names, they all have some stupid name for bumping up refresh rate and I don't care what they are.

Once again, I haven't claimed that g-sync works identically to freesync, I said it gives the same effect, which is all the end user remotely cares about.

 

[drunkenmaster]

We have neither, we will get mantle but only may get freesync.

Mantle is an unknown, we do not know real-world performance or how well it will be adopted by developers.

Freesync might be adopted by Vesa, which might be supported by AMD at some point. But then as an open standard it might be supported by NVIDIA too.

Just to be official, freesync already is available on those Toshiba laptops, it was using release drivers, with retail bought screens. You can today buy those screens and use freesync, so it's not a case of may only get freesync. Today, it's available.

 

[Final8y]

It isn't an alternative it makes no sense.

Its very likely a miss spelling which i do a lot because im lazy when it comes to typing.