AMD Loses Value Crown - Best CPUs of 2021, December Edition

[humbug]

I get why they done but I still think that a product should also be compared against its previous generation iteration, those sort of comparisons happen all the time in the tech industry and are an important metric to measure price to performance which is the best way to see progression or regression.

Yeah i get that but we have to be realistic, AMD are just another multi billion $ company, i think they are more approachable than Intel or Nvidia but AMD are suffering from shortages and being a multi billion $ company they will prioritise higher margin products, if even for that reason one as a tech journalists talking to AMD fails the smart thing to do is keep your relationship with them cordial, if you burn bridges because your influencing didn't work then you will end up being treated the same way Nvidia treat you and that would be entirely your fault, its worth keeping a good rapport with someone like AMD who have eaten humble pie many times and perhaps feel themselves more human because of it.
People like Robert Hallock, Dr Lisa Sue seem very human to me.
What Steve Walton said about Lisa Sue on Twitter was bang out of order and he never apologised for it, he burned his bridges, he's an idiot.

 

[Curlyriff]

If you disagree with what I'm saying about AMD then maybe try being constructive about why you think the 5600X is more closely aligned to a 3600X in design rather than just the 3600 other than the X in the name.

No one here has actually brought anything to table to dispute what I'm saying and instead resort to mud slinging.

So what your saying is that we got a 26% increase in performance for the 5600 (if we take what you want to call it) over a 3600x whilst also reducing the CPU power requirement all the way down to 65w.

Well done AMD. The point here is the name is irrelevant because the elements to look at are price to performance to power usage.

So we got the same performance to price going from the 3600x to 5600x but at lower wattage. seems like in a single year thar could be a solid improvement. If you not worried about the 26% performance pay the 25% less and just buy a 3600x?

However the 3600x released at £239 the 5600x released at £279 so that was actually a 16% price increase for 26% performance. Meaning we actually got better than 1:1 price to performance increase.

At the moment the 12600k is same price as 5600x but with a 5% performance increase if you look at the lowest price available for chips in stock.

The average is actually the 12600k is selling around 7% more than the 5600x for that 5% performance lead and that is without taking into account mono and RAM side of things.

I can't talk about pricing or anything in another another region and just going from what the UK current prices are. So it isn't quite as mental for everything to suggest that they are pretty much on par with one another right now.

AMD dropping some 3D cache chips at current prices (meaning the £260 for the 5600x equivalent) and pushing the 5600x down to the £220-£230 price point would give AMD the solid chip at a much better price to performance ratio compared to AMD again just in that one shift. Shall see how plays out.

 

[Joxeon]

So what your saying is that we got a 26% increase in performance for the 5600 (if we take what you want to call it) over a 3600x whilst also reducing the CPU power requirement all the way down to 65w.

The fact they reduced the power to 65w made this a 3600 not 3600X replacement but keep believing that AMD marketing.

So we got the same performance to price going from the 3600x to 5600x but at lower wattage. seems like in a single year thar could be a solid improvement. If you not worried about the 26% performance pay the 25% less and just buy a 3600x?

Suggesting buying the 3600X over the 3600.. Come on now.

The average is actually the 12600k is selling around 7% more than the 5600x for that 5% performance lead and that is without taking into account mono and RAM side of things.

Did you not see the reviews showing the MT performance advantage?

AMD dropping some Vcache chips at current prices (meaning the £260 for the 5600x equivalent) and pushing the 5600x down to the £220-£230 price point would give AMD the solid chip at a much better price to performance ratio compared to AMD again just in that one shift. Shall see how plays out.

I would be supprised if we see a Vcache version of the 5600X but I wouldn't be supprised if we get an refresh with slightly bumped clocks similar to the 3000XT, I do however expect a price cut though to compete with the 12400F + B660 which from Igorslab testing would place it right around the 5600X performance. One thing I would not expect to see though is AMD releasing a 5600 non X as that's chips already been on the market for a year now albeit under a different guise.

It was a genius move that AMD pulled with this one to maximise supply by selling lower binned silicon at a higher price of which even Jensen would have been proud. No wonder AMDs profits are through the roof.

 

[Journey]

Maybe you could explain how they would release a 95w 6 core part, add 100MHz to the clock speed maybe?

You still haven't also answered why the 12900K is suitable as a model name given the up to 241w TDP vs the previous generations, can TDP only go up not down? If so did does that mean my LED light bulbs are all terrible against my incandescent ones?

 

[Joxeon]

Maybe you could explain how they would release a 95w 6 core part, add 100MHz to the clock speed maybe?

You still haven't also answered why the 12900K is suitable as a model name given the up to 241w TDP vs the previous generations, can TDP only go up not down? If so did does that mean my LED light bulbs are all terrible against my incandescent ones?

As you say if AMD do release a 95w version in the up coming refresh you would likely see a clock speed bump say 4.7/4.8 boost and the all core clocks would get a 2-300 MHz bump.

If TDPs move around from one generation to another due to efficiency or extra power requirements then you would expect that to apply across the board like with how 9>10th gen increased from 95-125w for all the K SKUs.

Intel were guilty with the 11th gen of using manipulating the naming to save face by being forced to drop cores and probably milk their loyal customers like Dave with the 11900k which was basically an i7 part.

The 5800 non X OEM being a 65w is the direct replacement for the 3700pro OEM so this shows CPU naming can be tweaked and the same was true for the 2700 and 2700X which became the 3700X and 3800X while the 2600 and 2600X maintained the status quo.

AMD learned from the past and the poor sales of parts like 3600X and 3800X that were competing against cheaper non X versions so this time employed a different strategy, the 3700X replacement was never released the general market so left the 5800X as the only choice with a nice little price rise tacked on and the 5600X being the lowest bin was limited to a 65w TDP instead of the usual 95w that AMD had always set for X SKUs to maximise yields. AMD had to call it an X because if they went with the 5600 non X as they had for every other 6 core generation ryzen with a 65w TDP the level of price rise would have looked really bad.

 

[Journey]

So to clarify, TDP had nothing to do with naming at all.

 

[NZXT30]

I like how this should be a thread praising Intel on their comeback dominating every performance bracket with reasonable prices and stock levels but instead it's more about AMD sales and profits and how Alderlake CPUs need expensive motherboards

 

[gpuerrilla]

I like how this should be a thread praising Intel on their comeback dominating every performance bracket with reasonable prices and stock levels but instead it's more about AMD sales and profits and how Alderlake CPUs need expensive motherboards

Were you not here back in 2010? Just flip your brands..

 

[jigger]

I like how this should be a thread praising Intel on their comeback dominating every performance bracket with reasonable prices and stock levels but instead it's more about AMD sales and profits and how Alderlake CPUs need expensive motherboards

Just wait until Intel start to put pressure on the graphics card market and hurt Nvidia.

I think Intel have done ok, but Intels strategy it’s a botch job and a long way off being a solution to Zen.

 

[Joxeon]

So to clarify, TDP had nothing to do with naming at all.

AMDs TDP on core for core parts shows which SKU from the previous generation is replaced by the part in the new generation, it's been like this through all 4 generations of ryzen processors with some naming changes along the way but clearly shows the 5600X replaces the 3600 as the new gen version.

 

[jigger]

AMDs TDP on core for core parts shows which SKU from the previous generation is replaced by the part in the new generation, it's been like this through all 4 generations of ryzen processors with some naming changes along the way but clearly shows the 5600X replaces the 3600 as the new gen version.

Is that official... The 3600X replacement was the 5600X. Clue is in the name.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Just wait until Intel start to put pressure on the graphics card market and hurt Nvidia.

I think Intel have done ok, but Intels strategy it’s a botch job and a long way off being a solution to Zen.

Yeah my thoughts too, GPUs will shake up some needed attention but for everyone's sake the CPU division needed a kick in the balls to get them to innovate better IMO.

 

[Joxeon]

Is that official... The 3600X replacement was the 5600X. Clue is in the name.

Keep drinking that orange kool-aid.

 

[jigger]

Keep drinking that orange kool-aid.

It’s hilarious how easily you fell of that big horse and into that big hole you dug.

 

[humbug]

R23
12600K: 17,500
5800X: 15,500

The 12600K is about 13% faster.

5800X £330
12600K £290

So 13% faster and 13% cheaper. But its not enough, because, where is it? 5600X: Check, 5800X: Check, 5900X: Check, 5950X Check, 12600K: Nil, any Alder Lake? Nil.

As i said, barking up the wrong tree, AMD don't need to do anything beyond what they have.

 

[Joxeon]

It’s hilarious how easily you fell of that big horse and into that big hole you dug.

I find it more hilarious how guys feverishly defend anti consumer practices of a multi billion dollar company who couldn't really care less about you.

@humbug

You dont have to buy the retail version though and have KF and OEM to pick from for a better deal and also there is a £25 MSI cashback deal on right now for this board so actually works out cheaper for a stronger CPU and a better board with 4 gen 4.0 nvme slots.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £189.95
• 1 x Intel Core i5-12600K 3.70GHz (Alder Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - OEM= £248.99

Total: £449.44 (includes shipping: £10.50)​

​

My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Eight Core 4.7GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £329.99
• 1 x Gigabyte B550 AORUS Elite V2 (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard= £99.95

Total: £440.44 (includes shipping: £10.50)​

​

 

[humbug]

I find it more hilarious how guys feverishly defend anti consumer practices of a multi billion dollar company who couldn't really care less about you.

Whose defending them? This is simply a reality check, do you think the Steve Walton method of influencing would have any effect on how a company price the products they sell when they sell everything they make and that being way more than their competitor?

AMD spent years selling CPU's at below their value to win back mindshare, that's a lot of humble pie, screaming at them now "eat some more" is barking up the wrong tree, what is wrong with Intel eating some humble pie?

 

[jigger]

I find it more hilarious how guys feverishly defend anti consumer practices of a multi billion dollar company who couldn't really care less about you.

Instead of incessantly whinging on an enthusiast forum and forcing everyone to wade through your feelings and theories, maybe write to your MP? They get paid to listen to drivel.

 

[Joxeon]

Instead of incessantly whinging on an enthusiast forum and forcing everyone to wade through your feelings and theories, maybe write to your MP? They get paid to listen to drivel.

Like you whine on about Nvidia constantly?

 

[jigger]

Whose defending them? This is simply a reality check, do you think the Steve Walton method of influencing would have any effect on how a company price the products they sell when they sell everything they make and that being way more than their competitor?

AMD spent years selling CPU's at below their value to win back mindshare, that's a lot of humble pie, screaming at them now "eat some more" is barking up the wrong tree, what is wrong with Intel eating some humble pie?

Joxen.