AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[fs123]

So the 5700xt is the same speed as the 2070 and 15% slower than a 2080, comparing reference models.

The Navi reference is a blower and the 2070 is not afaik so obviously the 2070 clocks higher. If you are comparing ref then compare prices too. Price for a reference 5700XT is the same or less than a 2060 Super yet 5700XT is faster.

 

[melmac]

No. Su has herself said that they no longer want to position AMD as a budget brand when it comes to GPU's, they were going to push it to the edge as far as they could get away with. Maybe the drops were a backup plan but in no way was it planned, just not professional in any way.

Yeah, it was planned. And your statement doesn't make sense, from any point of view. How does reducing the prices by $50 on two cards change Su's overall push to move AMD from the Budget card position? Even with the price drop people are still complaining they are priced too high.

And if Su's main aim is stop AMD been the budget brand, why reduce prices at all? I mean they have a card that's nearly as good as the way more expensive 2070 Super. It's showing very little faith in your product and your strategy if you drop prices before launch, unless you had planned to do this all along. And, AMD haven't reduced prices on other cards lately despite been slower and more expensive than the competition.

If Nvidia did the same thing and came out with a statement saying that they did this, most people here would be saying well played Nvidia. AMD come out with a statement saying that's what they did and everyone is saying rubbish. But AMD have shown that they are much better company under Lisa Su. The CPU space should show how much smarter they are becoming.

 

[JediFragger]

Yeah, it was planned.

Tbf neither of us can be 100% on this, so let's agree to disagree.

 

[Scougar]

No. Su has herself said that they no longer want to position AMD as a budget brand when it comes to GPU's, they were going to push it to the edge as far as they could get away with. Maybe the drops were a backup plan but in no way was it planned, just not professional in any way.

Having an idea and it being reality are very different.

Having a card that has a flaw like the 5500xt and missing x16 pci-e 3.0 is just silly. Hardly makes it a "premium" proposition. Also, smacking customers in the face knowing they actually gave the better chips to Apple...

Bring the product, give us the features and support and people will buy.

 

[D.P.]

The Navi reference is a blower and the 2070 is not afaik so obviously the 2070 clocks higher. If you are comparing ref then compare prices too. Price for a reference 5700XT is the same or less than a 2060 Super yet 5700XT is faster.

The discussion was whether a 5700xt would compete with a 2080, it didn't and hence the prices. The current price-performance comparison is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[NZXT30]

No. Su has herself said that they no longer want to position AMD as a budget brand when it comes to GPU's, they were going to push it to the edge as far as they could get away with. Maybe the drops were a backup plan but in no way was it planned, just not professional in any way.

Indeed. People have forgotten that the 5700 series received a price drop just before release because of the nvidia supers announcement 5 days earlier. Unless AMD change strategy don't expect them to significantly undercut nvidia.

 

[Saltcreek]

I think it will be much harder to pull off in the GPU space though.

I personally feel that the 5700/XT is a bit of a disaster due to the drivers. The AMD discord/reddit has new people joining each day with driver problems and I know quite a few people that have returned their cards and gone back to nvidia just because they were stable (small sample sizes but enough to make me question AMD). I was really hoping that AMD would have these drivers sorted by now but it has been like 6 months and there has been little progress. I will personally not be buying a AMD gpu until I have enough data to show that it will actually work.

 

[TNA]

I personally feel that the 5700/XT is a bit of a disaster due to the drivers. The AMD discord/reddit has new people joining each day with driver problems and I know quite a few people that have returned their cards and gone back to nvidia just because they were stable (small sample sizes but enough to make me question AMD). I was really hoping that AMD would have these drivers sorted by now but it has been like 6 months and there has been little progress. I will personally not be buying a AMD gpu until I have enough data to show that it will actually work.

The AMD boys will be along soon to tell you all that is PEBCAK and there is nothing wrong with the 5700 XT

 

[JediFragger]

I was really hoping that AMD would have these drivers sorted by now but it has been like 6 months and there has been little progress.

Yup it's a shame, I had problems with my 5700XT but tbf my Vega64 was *solid* so I'm hoping they would have fixed most issues by now. They don't need the bad driver rep to creep up on them again...

 

[NZXT30]

Yup it's a shame, I had problems with my 5700XT but tbf my Vega64 was *solid* so I'm hoping they would have fixed most issues by now. They don't need the bad driver rep to creep up on them again...

But did they ever get rid off the bad rep? A few months ago I recommended an AMD gpu to a guy on a public discord and got made fun of by people because of bad drivers. I didn't have driver problems when I had AMD GPUs.

 

[Panos]

You've literally just done the same with hypothetical performance of big navi being faster than an RTX 2080ti you're insane dude, but entertaining.

Actually @4K8KW10 is right. TSMC maximum size for a 7nm chip is 429mm2. RTX2080Ti shrank to that node is over 520mm2.
Except if Nvidia starts chopping parts like all RT or Tensor cores, is physically impossible to have the GPU of that size manufactured. Hence the true meaning of his comment, sarcastically mocking that Nvidia cannot make a 7nm chip from Turing and has to give up something.
Many expect that Nvidia will stick to 12nm for 2020.

And is all about yield. The bigger the chip the higher the failure also, so higher the cost.
Even AMD with it's 74mm2 Zen2 will have yield issues on 5nm process, except if each chipplet becomes quad core.
Consider Nvidia trying to squeeze the 752mm2 12nm behemoth to sub 100mm2 which has 30% yield.

 

[Chrisc]

But did they ever get rid off the bad rep? A few months ago I recommended an AMD gpu to a guy on a public discord and got made fun of by people because of bad drivers. I didn't have driver problems when I had AMD GPUs.

To be fair, AMD's drivers were solid through polaris/Vega, the new architecture is why i would guess there have been driver issues. its a shame this has happened, because that stigma will stay with AMD for a while longer.

 

[NZXT30]

Well fingers crossed:

SANTA CLARA, Calif., Dec. 31, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) today announced that it will hold a press conference as a part of the official CES 2020 Media Days, and hosted by AMD President and CEO Dr. Lisa Su. The event is scheduled for Monday, Jan. 6 at 2:00 p.m. PST at the Mandalay Bay.

http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amd-announces-press-conference-ces-2020

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Actually @4K8KW10 is right. TSMC maximum size for a 7nm chip is 429mm2. RTX2080Ti shrank to that node is over 520mm2.
Except if Nvidia starts chopping parts like all RT or Tensor cores, is physically impossible to have the GPU of that size manufactured. Hence the true meaning of his comment, sarcastically mocking that Nvidia cannot make a 7nm chip from Turing and has to give up something.
Many expect that Nvidia will stick to 12nm for 2020.

And is all about yield. The bigger the chip the higher the failure also, so higher the cost.
Even AMD with it's 74mm2 Zen2 will have yield issues on 5nm process, except if each chipplet becomes quad core.
Consider Nvidia trying to squeeze the 752mm2 12nm behemoth to sub 100mm2 which has 30% yield.

I'm not arguing about die sizes, just the fact that doubling them means double performance. I seriously doubt this new AMD competes with the outgoing nvidia cards and will likely be obliterated by whatever next gen comes along.
These navi chips are a bit half baked to me, I'd be concerned about longevity if I'd bought one as they seem to run hotter than they should.

 

[LePhuronn]

Well fingers crossed:

AMD always do something. This is more likely for the new APUs as always. If a new GPU was to be announced, it probably would be at a keynote like last year; pomp and fanfare for a Big Navi (or the 54 core Threadripper) wouldn't be relegated to something on media day, it would have a bigger, more public audience.

But yes, fingers-crossed.

 

[bru]

Well fingers crossed:

Probably the 5600 series..... maybe.

 

[JediFragger]

because that stigma will stay with AMD for a while longer.

Probably put another decade on the stigma, a gift to nVidia which is a shame!!

 

[Martini1991]

Really hoping that they announce some sort of Vega 64 replacement tier card soon.

 

[Panos]

Really hoping that they announce some sort of Vega 64 replacement tier card soon.

The new Arcturus based MI100 more likely would come to consumers with 16GB HBM, which is an upgraded Vega MI60 at it's core.

Trust me is the card I am eyeing also since 6 months now there is no word for ROCm on Navi, having to run 2 cards currently. One for games (5700XT AE) and one for compute.

 

[Martini1991]

The new Arcturus based MI100 more likely would come to consumers with 16GB HBM, which is an upgraded Vega MI60 at it's core.

Trust me is the card I am eyeing also since 6 months now there is no word for ROCm on Navi, having to run 2 cards currently. One for games (5700XT AE) and one for compute.

I'm not fussed about compute, I want a gaming card and the 5700XT's not really a replacement of the Vega 64.

Then again, it's not like I struggle with the 5700XT at all. It's quite solid at 2560x1080 144HZ.