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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by Gregster, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. sideways14a

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 31, 2017

    Posts: 1,874

    I still think they will do 3 tiers again (AMD)
    There is the current 5700 which will become something like the low end 6500 or 6600 - then the navi2 parts start at say 6800, 6800xt then the 6900 monster.
    6800 non xt, say 2080 super or within sniffing distance of the 2080ti -
    6800xt = 2080ti + 10%
    Then big big navi 6900 at 2080ti +35-40% - perhaps even an XT version of this with a water cooler ect for another 10%

    Anything less and its another year of fail for AMDs GPU division at the top end.
     
  2. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,721

    Location: Planet Earth

    There is one die which was rumoured which was around the current size of Navi10 but has RT. But what would be a bigger fail is if we don't have a GPU with GTX1080TI level performance at 1080p at under £300. That would only be around 20% extra performance over a 5600XT.
     
  3. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,013

    As i illuded to AMD care less about Desktop these days, they aim to ram their technology into every indirect ecosystem going, that bypasses this very fickle community with its brand loyalties, and this is working for them, AMD will make 10 times as much from these new consoles than they will from the ~20% market share they have with us.
     
  4. Th0nt

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 21, 2005

    Posts: 7,270

    Location: N.Ireland

    Yeah from a business perspective its likely the internal motive. To be fair though, if you had many years playing second fiddle to Intel and nVidia where they try to lock you out of the market and bribe the hell out of everyone so its taken as the way it is - then you steal the console segment making the hardware, it only makes sense to base on that?
     
  5. EastCoastHandle

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 8, 2018

    Posts: 1,287

    If AMD is being locked out from optimizing (or gameswork gimped) any game let alone CP2077 they need to setup a press brief before benchmarks are released. That will buffet results and create disclaimers to those results. AMD has done it before.
     
  6. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,721

    Location: Planet Earth

    I do think AMD should target some of these bigger games - if not just for the GPU performance,but to get better CPU performance too. A GPU must still cost millions of USD to tape out,etc so its seems weird for them not to bother.
     
  7. Th0nt

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 21, 2005

    Posts: 7,270

    Location: N.Ireland

    I get your point but the reality is if you are not blinded by the AAA games and know that benchmarks are easily weighted due to engine/brand/sponsor stuff then as long as the AMD card has enough meat to grunt the required horsepower, the majority of indie titles or mods that are played by the masses should be able to understand that. :p
     
  8. Grim5

    Suspended

    Joined: Feb 6, 2019

    Posts: 3,588

    The delay is to try and fix the game on the current gen consoles, poor Xbox probably struggling at 600p

    As for your Ncidia conspiracy theories - none of this is new, many other RTX games have similiar performance with al RT features enabled and devs still use it because graphics sells games not framerate - stay off the cool aid, not everything is a conspiracy theory by Nvidia.
     
  9. Grim5

    Suspended

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    Posts: 3,588

    The Xbox series S has a 4tflop rdna2 gpu - so clearly AMD has some very small Rdna2 cards planned
     
  10. Jacky60

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 16, 2010

    Posts: 833

    Location: Earth

    T
    That would probably work but I suspect that will equate to next gen console performance or thereabouts given other console advances. I also want to believe that but we've effectively 'skipped' a generation due to Nvidia's 'The way you're meant to be played' pricing.
     
  11. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,721

    Location: Planet Earth

    Bless, you are still full of hope! :p

    Some of us have seen the tricks played by most of the companies over the last 20 years. Remember,how you also talk about Intel and their tricks against AMD,well Nvidia does it also. Nvidia is not your mate and neither is AMD - they are here to sell new products. CDPR never delayed a game for 3 months to make better console performance according to forums,and never used that time to add Gameworks features instead 2 months before launch. None of the X87 PhysX stuff,tessellation,etc. Never happened.The tech press all imagined it.

    Everyone,Grim5 says all the Turing GPUs will run Cyberpunk 2077 fine,so there is no need to buy Ampere,and if Ampere runs it much better and Turing does not its a coolaid conspiracy theory. It was the way it was meant to be played.

    :p

    Every RTX game runs at under 1080p native resolution,at well under 60FPS(close to 30fps in many parts) on a £1000 GPU,and needs upscaling to get to 1080p. Those reviewers had it all so wrong with their reviews. Metro:Exodus and Control all need upscaling at 1080p apparently.

    Also PC is not about FPS,that is why gamers don't buy expensive overclocked CPUs,and 120/144HZ/240HZ monitors don't exist,as PC is all about cinematic gaming with 30FPS lows,like consoles. Locked 60FPS,who wants that? I remember a bloke called Rollo once who was a fountain of knowledge who gave me such insights.

    Phew,I was worried there for a second. I take it all back,all GPUs will run this game perfectly fine,and a potato CPU will be OK.

    :p

    Or they will repurpose RDNA1....I doubt it will be made to target any kind of RT. AMD has a habit of mixing and matching designs for each generation nowadays. RDNA1 has partial GCN features,so it should make porting over existing games a bit easier.

    You mean all the reviews which will test this game,etc and probably see not so great launch performance. There is no point sponsoring short FPS games which people forget about after a few months,when Nvidia is sponsoring many RPG games and MMOs,which people play for 100s or 1000s of hours. Hence reviewers keep them in the review lists much longer. Look at Unreal Engine?? Nvidia forged very close links with Epic,and as a result lots of Indie games,will show better performance natively on UE4 as it integrates a ton of Nvidia specific features. You need to optimise for AMD on the PC version. Only this year,has there some movement on trying to incorporate TressFX into UE4.

    I don't understand them at times,they have more money now,and they need to make the most of their GPU investments. If not they need to brute force performance,which means they need to push GPUs more,meaning more power consumption,etc.

    The worst thing is half the battle is already won as this is on the new consoles - AMD really does not leverage it's console wins as well as they should. Thank goodness(for them) Nvidia didn't have one of the home consoles,otherwise they would be in deeper trouble.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  12. melmac

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 7,692

    You are right on one point, the game isn't been delayed because of that Nvidia conspiracy theory nonsense. But it doesn't seem to be delayed because of problems with the consoles either.

    The most plausible explanation for the delay is they they are timing the release to coincide with the next gen console releases. Which is what most reasonable people seem to be suggesting on the various forums and tech sites. That extra time does give them a chance to iron out some more of the bugs that are inevitable in game releases these days and more so in a game as ambitious as this one.

    The consoles won't have the full next gen graphics until an update in 2021 but, they will have a day one patch that will give them better graphics than the older consoles.
     
  13. Calin Banc

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 14, 2009

    Posts: 1,061

    Yeah, played with those disabled and ran fine. Hairworks didn't add that much (for me), since the camera was far away from the action and the performances wast lost for nothing.
     
  14. Th0nt

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 21, 2005

    Posts: 7,270

    Location: N.Ireland

    Basically we have to live with it yes. AMD are not going to pour the funds into the trap as we all know by now that its impossible to crack the mindset sewn in legacy years. I would think their only chance will be when a GPU actually smashes nvidia hard enough that they can gloat they are better by a margin any fanboy cant defend.

    You look at AMD already offering loads of free games using codes with GPU sales and people still go nvidia even for cards that are blatantly better (RX570 > 1050/1650).
     
  15. Grim5

    Suspended

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    Posts: 3,588

    I turn off any and all hair simulation where it's from Nvidia or amd - it's one of the more pointless graphics options ever invented
     
  16. Besty

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 3,471

    I would agree there, no bad thing, I would be quite happy with that tbh with one eyeball on being able to remove the power limit on the PC cards.
     
  17. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,721

    Location: Planet Earth

    But the problem is they really need to target some of these titles,because ultimately it's not doing them favours in terms of performance. Not only GPU performance but CPU performance.

    Certain titles will be played for years...remember WoW....for years AMD didn't bother improving performance in a game with a huge playerbase. Hence for years,Nvidia was the preferred choice for the game! If you are targetting game sponsorships and have limited resources,its best to choose wisely. You can see how much defence by some of this game and CDPR in it's current state,to show how well Nvidia knows to target it's sponsorship.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  18. bru

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 21, 2002

    Posts: 7,311

    Location: kent

    All this whining and conspiracy nonsense, AMD just need to give us a GPU that is good at the basics and in this day and age that means DXR.

    If they do very well in DXR based benchmarks then they will be on to a winner, if of course they are nowhere near as fast at DXR based ray tracing than the competition, then NVidia will still be the the go to guys.
     
  19. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,721

    Location: Planet Earth

    ^That is the simple comment which got some here sprouting its a conspiracy. This is what exactly happned with W3. Nvidia literally released a driver months after launch for Kepler,and CDPR updated the game months after launch,with new settings. They literally delayed the game for 3 months,and implemented Gameworks features,two months prior to release.The tech press covered all of this.

    Turing is running this game poorly just 4 months prior to launch,the proper console version is next year,and Nvidia is sponsoring the game. So what do you think is coming also this year.....Ampere. So the experts here think Ampere isn't being optimised for? Nvidia needs time to get drivers upto scratch,etc so they don't repeat the Turing launch. It's obviously a conspiracy!

    So what are you all saying,a game sponsored by Nvidia is NOT going to run best on Ampere?? What a conspiracy that is! Just,wow,its right out there with the Lizard people!

    Some of you are incredibly gullible,if you think game sponsorships don't exist for selling new GPUs. It shows a distinct lack of critical understanding,when people who worked for these programmes at AMD/Nvidia pretty much in their own CVs,etc say that is why they do it. Only hardware enthusiasts on tech forums,think it doesn't work that way.

    Lots of people pointed out those things mentioned,the tech press confirmed it,yet it's quickly forgotten,and the same cycle happens again and again.

    What I find funny is some of you do this all the time.....for years and years you keep saying conspiracy and yet the same things happen all the time. Then when it happens you all just deflect and ignore it happens and continue onwards. So you are trapped in your own echo chambers. I still remember people said that when the Titan was released,it would eventually mean AMD/Nvidia targetting higher and higher price points,pushing up midrange GPU price-points,etc. The response was it's a conspiracy,all rubbish. Yet it transpired.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  20. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,013

    Historically that has not been true, AMD has had the fastest cards while also being cheaper, it made little difference to the AMD - Nvidia sales ratio.

    Most people want more competitive AMD cards so they can buy cheaper Nvidia cards, that's not conducive to AMD's bottom line.