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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year
- Thread starter Gregster
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Soldato
So you find fine a card just avg 35% faster been 300%-350% more expensive?
That's the whole argument about.
In addition that actually AMD only has a small gap to close beating the Nvidia flagship, not some double the performance card as some believe.
Soldato
So by your reconning Nvidia could charge million quid for a 2080ti and be fine??
Soldato
Given Gregsters & Deuse comments also, possibly for some anything is acceptable if done by Nvidia.
Hence some times I wonder if are paid shills between us in this forum. Normal intelligent consumers wouldn't write such insane arguments.
Especially some arguing that we bash Nvidia pricing because we cannot afford at 2080Ti.
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Childish post. I actually gave you fair reasoning but your response is like a kid in the playground.
Soldato
Soldato
If you think over a third is smallyou don't do maths good
A third isn't small but it is compared to the 300% price increase!
Soldato
Isn't that the same with all high tier goods
. You do know that to some price is not an issue?While I think the price of the 2080Ti is too high, I don't agree fully with what Panos is saying.
IF you only look at the average frame rate then it looks like the 2080Ti is only 35% faster than the 5700XT. But, that headline isn't the whole story. If you watch the whole video you will see that there is a large gap in actual framerate in most of the games. That's the difference between playable and unplayable. Not only that, but if you look at the frame times, the 1% lows and 0.1% lows you will see that the 2080Ti crushes the 5700XT. These are important numbers for gamers.
But, even that isn't the whole story. The 2080Ti also has Ray Tracing. Like it or not, or whether you think it's worth it or not, it's still there, you can't just ignore it when you are comparing cards.
Caporegime
Its not the 1% / 0.1% lows alone. Its how much that varies, its high fluctuations in fast frame times that cause micro-stutter. So if you want to talk about frame times watch the frame times graph, the line on the 5700XT is clearly smoother, more consistent, better frame pacing. The 5700XT is keeping the frame times tighter and that can look like its lower but actually be smoother.
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Caporegime
Think of it this way...
In your mind draw a wave graph, that what that line in the red box is.
(not exacting numbers, just an example)
Over a course of 1000ms (one second) the frame times vary from 2.5ms to 20ms, that's an average of 12ms, or 85 FPS 'ish. but that is quite a large difference from frame to frame, one frame is on screen for 2ms and the next 20ms, you see and feel that difference as micro stutter.
So this is where frame pacing comes in, you can't bring the 20ms down because the GPU can only render the frame as fast as it can, but you can slow down the 2.5ms to 10ms reducing that difference in frame times resulting in less extreme variation between frames, (squash that wave graph) the result is more fluid rendering, on a graph this looks worse because now you're averaging 15ms over 1 second. Which is 65 FPS.
Years ago AMD's early GCN GPU's had higher averages than Nvidia's GPU's, some reviewers picked up on the fact that despite this Nvidia's GPU's were smoother, this is because AMD didn't do any effective Frame Pacing, so while AMD on paper had high frame rates it was due to their frame times fluctuating wildly out of control resulting in stutter.
In your mind draw a wave graph, that what that line in the red box is.
(not exacting numbers, just an example)
Over a course of 1000ms (one second) the frame times vary from 2.5ms to 20ms, that's an average of 12ms, or 85 FPS 'ish. but that is quite a large difference from frame to frame, one frame is on screen for 2ms and the next 20ms, you see and feel that difference as micro stutter.
So this is where frame pacing comes in, you can't bring the 20ms down because the GPU can only render the frame as fast as it can, but you can slow down the 2.5ms to 10ms reducing that difference in frame times resulting in less extreme variation between frames, (squash that wave graph) the result is more fluid rendering, on a graph this looks worse because now you're averaging 15ms over 1 second. Which is 65 FPS.
Years ago AMD's early GCN GPU's had higher averages than Nvidia's GPU's, some reviewers picked up on the fact that despite this Nvidia's GPU's were smoother, this is because AMD didn't do any effective Frame Pacing, so while AMD on paper had high frame rates it was due to their frame times fluctuating wildly out of control resulting in stutter.
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Caporegime
Caporegime
Oh Gawd. So it starts.....
Soldato
Seems you forgot your own posts mate.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/33024660/
(from the same discussion)
Do you want me to continue?
Associate
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If the card turns out to be top-tier Navi, it'll be interesting to see Ray-Tracing performance. Priced decently i.e. 600 GBP or lower it'll fly off the shelves.
Soldato
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I don't believe that AMD is going to do RT the same way Nvidia does it though. It appears they are interested in some sort of hybrid solution. Wasn't there an article regarding their patent on it?
Caporegime
Big Navi is likely to be 60 CU, and RDNA 2, for whatever that is worth...
The 5700XT is 40 (2560 Shaders) so 60 is 3840. 5700XT + 50%, that could fit with <20% greater performance than 2080TI.
The Die size would be <400mm^2, still not big. Half the size of a 2080TI.
The 5700XT is 40 (2560 Shaders) so 60 is 3840. 5700XT + 50%, that could fit with <20% greater performance than 2080TI.
The Die size would be <400mm^2, still not big. Half the size of a 2080TI.
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Soldato
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The 1080Ti launched at about £550. The 2080Ti launched at about £1100. They doubled the price for RTX.
So with RTX disabled, the 2080Ti is worth £550. Switch on RTX and it's worth £1100. So RTX as a platform is £550. If a 2080Ti owner buys 2 RTX games, it works out to £310 per game (£35 for a game then £275 for the platform split between the two games).
20 or 30 games and RTX as a platform would be worth it. I dont know how you can do anything but ignore RTX completely.
Soldato
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