AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[FoxEye]

Short term maybe but it could give amd a massive boost in market share, then we all win.

You'll find that when AMD are the top dog, they are more than happy to make their own prices ridiculous. Don't forget the 7970, etc.

Market share isn't really something we need to be concerned with, as consumers. Really we just need to buy whatever is best value at the time.

Wanting AMD to use unethical/anti-consumer practices to gain market share... is an odd desire from a purely consumer viewpoint.

 

[markoboyo11]

You'll find that when AMD are the top dog, they are more than happy to make their own prices ridiculous. Don't forget the 7970, etc.

Market share isn't really something we need to be concerned with, as consumers. Really we just need to buy whatever is best value at the time.

Wanting AMD to use unethical/anti-consumer practices to gain market share... is an odd desire from a purely consumer viewpoint.

It isnt my "desire" I just think it would be a good move by them.
I dont want anyone to be top dog, infact what I want is them constantly one uping each other.
Keeps prices down and my excitement in gpus up, right now my interest in gpus is the lowest it's been in over 20 years and that's a real shame.

 

[melmac]

If AMD were a bit more ruthless they should not make their new RT features open source and lock people in.
If developers are coding rt features for the consoles on amd and they only work on amd graphics cards, developers wont get the best out of recoding them for nvidia gpus so would be a massive win for amd.

Now that would be a very sensible idea. Developers won't jump through hoops to code RT for Nvidia if most of the market is using AMD hardware. I'm sure they'd make a cursory effort but they won't spend a huge amount of time and money on it. Nvidia would then have to carry the additional costs.

I agree with this and people cannot rag on Nvidia and not on Amd if Amd do the same.

I think you guys have been listening to some over enthusiastic AMD followers. Nvidia's RTX is used by Vulkan RT or Microsoft DXR when there is Ray Tracing to be done in a game. They can't use anything from AMD because AMD haven't come out with any RT solution yet.

It isnt my "desire" I just think it would be a good move by them.

It's a stupid idea, AMD would have to come up with a complete gaming API to Rival Vulkan or Microsoft Direct X and then they would have to convince gaming developers to make games on it. They would still need to come with a Ray Tracing solution for their gaming API to use. All the while the the consoles would be using Microsoft's DXR.

 

[humbug]

I think you guys have been listening to some over enthusiastic AMD followers. Nvidia's RTX is used by Vulkan RT or Microsoft DXR when there is Ray Tracing to be done in a game. They can't use anything from AMD because AMD haven't come out with any RT solution yet.



It's a stupid idea, AMD would have to come up with a complete gaming API to Rival Vulkan or Microsoft Direct X and then they would have to convince gaming developers to make games on it. They would still need to come with a Ray Tracing solution for their gaming API to use. All the while the the consoles would be using Microsoft's DXR.

You don't need RT cores to do Ray Tracing, the way Nvidia do it is just way over the top, a bit like using 64X Tessellation per pixel in a strand of hair, completely ridiculous but forces you to buy Nvidia's over sized and over priced hardware.

There are existing solutions that are just as good in Quality and infinitely more Effient, so Effient it runs better on generic GPU's than it runs on RTX.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

RTX is not ray tracing.

 

[humbug]

RTX is not ray tracing.

Correct.

 

[melmac]

You don't need RT cores to do Ray Tracing, the way Nvidia do it is just way over the top, a bit like using 64X Tessellation per pixel in a strand of hair, completely ridiculous but forces you to buy Nvidia's over sized and over priced hardware.

There are existing solutions that are just as good in Quality and infinitely more Effient, so Effient it runs better on generic GPU's than it runs on RTX.

So where is AMD's Ray Tracing solution that Microsoft DXR and Vulkan RT can call on when they detect an AMD GPU?

 

[melmac]

RTX is not ray tracing.

If that is directed at me, then you misread my post, because I never said it was. The guys I quoted think it is though.

 

[markoboyo11]

I think you guys have been listening to some over enthusiastic AMD followers. Nvidia's RTX is used by Vulkan RT or Microsoft DXR when there is Ray Tracing to be done in a game. They can't use anything from AMD because AMD haven't come out with any RT solution yet.



It's a stupid idea, AMD would have to come up with a complete gaming API to Rival Vulkan or Microsoft Direct X and then they would have to convince gaming developers to make games on it. They would still need to come with a Ray Tracing solution for their gaming API to use. All the while the the consoles would be using Microsoft's DXR.

Dont be ridiculous they wouldn't need a whole new api to gain some performance benefits over nvidia. And it's been well documented that amd are bringing rt features this new gen of console and gpus.

Anyway that's all I've got to say on the subject, look forward to seeing what big navi and new consoles are like.

 

[Rroff]

So where is AMD's Ray Tracing solution that Microsoft DXR and Vulkan RT can call on when they detect an AMD GPU?

It is a good question - the approach used by DXR/Vulkan is the future ultimately other approaches at hybrid implementations are a dead end now and no point just reinventing the wheel - it isn't like there are multiple ways to do [proper] ray tracing.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

If that is directed at me

It wasn't, its directed to all those, who think RTX is Ray Tracing, when its not, its just the name of a graphics card from Nvdia, that has hardware, that can do Ray Tracing, that hardware, is the RT cores, hence why those cards, are called RTX, and not, GTX.

AMD, are going to be doing the exact same Ray Tracing as Nvidia, which is Microsofts DXR, the only difference, is going to be the hardware, that they use.

 

[humbug]

So where is AMD's Ray Tracing solution that Microsoft DXR and Vulkan RT can call on when they detect an AMD GPU?

What makes you think API specific Ray Tracing is the only form of Ray Tracing?

Do you think Microsoft are going to use large expensive Hardware Accelerators to do Ray Tracing in consoles?

As @LoadsaMoney said, RTX is not Ray Tracing.

 

[melmac]

What makes you think API specific Ray Tracing is the only form of Ray Tracing?

Do you think Microsoft are going to use large expensive Hardware Accelerators to do Ray Tracing in consoles?

As @LoadsaMoney said, RTX is not Ray Tracing.

None of what you said in this post or your last post has any relevance to the point I was making.

And haven't answered the question, Where is AMD's Ray Tracing solution that Microsoft and Vulkan can call when a game has Ray Tracing enabled.

 

[humbug]

None of what you said in this post or your last post has any relevance to the point I was making.

And haven't answered the question, Where is AMD's Ray Tracing solution that Microsoft and Vulkan can call when a game has Ray Tracing enabled.

You're talking about RTX specific games, AMD probably could enable that in the same way RTX run's on Pascal but these games have been developed in partnership with Nvidia who want you to buy their Hardware Accelerated RTX cards and the RT in those games is turned up so far you need Hardware Acceleration to run them with any level of playable performance, its turned up unnecessarily high to a ridiculous degree.

You're getting hung up on RTX, Ray Tracing be it API or engine specific IP does not require dedicated hardware. RTX is just branding, nothing more.

 

[melmac]

You're talking about RTX specific games, AMD probably could enable that in the same way RTX run's on Pascal but these games have been developed in partnership with Nvidia who want you to buy their Hardware Accelerated RTX cards and the RT in those games is turned up so far you need Hardware Acceleration to run them with any level of playable performance, its turned up unnecessarily high to a ridiculous degree.

You're getting hung up on RTX, Ray Tracing be it API or engine specific IP does not require dedicated hardware. RTX is just branding, nothing more.

You have done nothing else but discuss RTX since this conversation started and yet you accuse me of been hung up on it.

I don't care what Nvidia call it. Games that use Ray Tracing check to see if there is a software/hardware solution available to run the game with Ray Tracing enabled. It's up AMD and Nvidia to have a solution there for the game to call on. Be it a hardware or software solution.

And this still has no relevance to the point I was making.

And you still haven't answered the question where is AMD's solution?

 

[humbug]

You have done nothing else but discuss RTX since this conversation started and yet you accuse me of been hung up on it.

I don't care what Nvidia call it. Games that use Ray Tracing check to see if there is a software/hardware solution available to run the game with Ray Tracing enabled. It's up AMD and Nvidia to have a solution there for the game to call on. Be it a hardware or software solution.

And this still has no relevance to the point I was making.

And you still haven't answered the question where is AMD's solution?

You're just not listening.

Ray Tracing was not invented by Nvidia or Microsoft, Ray Tracing in one form or another has been in games for many years, both AMD and Nvidia GPU's run it, this going back generations of GPU's.

 

[melmac]

Ray Tracing was not invented by Nvidia or Microsoft, Ray Tracing in one form or another has been in games for years, both AMD and Nvidia GPU's run it, this going back generations of GPU's.

I never claimed it was.

And, again, nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

[humbug]

I never claimed it was.

And, again, nothing to do with the point I was making.

You're asking me where AMD's Ray Tracing solution is, AMD don't have a Ray Tracing Solution, they just run it where the Game Developer chooses to use it in their game, AMD didn't invent it, in the same way that Nvidia didn't invent it, Nvidia took an existing technology, created a never before needed and unnecessary piece of hardware to run RT when its turned upto 9000, partnered with a few game developers and turned RT to 9000, branded it RTX and sold it as a feature needing over sized and over priced GPU's.

Could AMD do the same? yes, should they? i'll leave you to decide that.

 

[Martini1991]

Where are these games that utilise ray tracing that can be run on AMD?

 

[melmac]

Dont be ridiculous they wouldn't need a whole new api to gain some performance benefits over nvidia. And it's been well documented that amd are bringing rt features this new gen of console and gpus.

Anyway that's all I've got to say on the subject, look forward to seeing what big navi and new consoles are like.

Games at the moment use either Microsoft DXR or Vulkan RT. So how are you going to make games that use AMD's RT solution only?

Not sure where you are going with the performance, I didn't mention anything about performance. I hope AMD's solution is faster. And there is talk of Ray Tracing coming to consoles but again, what's that got to do with AMD locking out their RT solution?

It's probably best you don't say anymore about it. It was a ridiculous idea.