AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Nablaoperator]

• Matches RTX 3080 rasterization
  • 30% slower than RTX 3080 in RT: $599
  • 40-50% slower: $549
  • 60%: $499

• 5% faster than RTX3080 in rasterization
  • 30% slower than RTX 3080 in RT: $629
  • 40-50% slower: $579
  • 60%: $529

• 10-15% faster than RTX 3080 in rasterization
  • 30% slower than RTX 3080 in RT: $699- 1200 as this is 3090 territory
  • 40-50% slower: $679
  • 60%: $649

@KentMan seems you got this right

 

[L-Digital82]

They will price it at whatever price they want and people will buy it. I paid 1k for radeon 7 on release day as did many others.

£1000?

Are you sure? im pretty sure I got the sapphire R7 on release day for £659.89 inc delivery. I think ASUS were selling theirs for around £800 if I remember right.

 

[thenewoc]

They will price it at whatever price they want and people will buy it. I paid 1k for radeon 7 on release day as did many others.

But they never achieved mass market share on those, it was fringe product that appealed to a small niche. £900 tops for Big Navi if they want to become a serious contender and grab market share is what I'm saying. They've got a long way to go to convince people to jump from being aligned to NV's marketing, proposition and dominance.

 

[L-Digital82]

Im on the cusp of getting my 3090 but I will happily jump back to AMD if their card is anywhere between 3080-3090 and their RT is half decent. Some of the things I am hearing about NV plans are making me think twice. It has been a catastrophe.

Whatever AMD does, it needs to ensure its sellers are bot proof in order to receive stock. Otherwise the same issues will strike again and with a smaller window between launch and xmas/NYE I dont think people will want to spend anywhere near the energy they have on a new white whale

 

[Absolutely Clueless]

They will price it at whatever price they want and people will buy it. I paid 1k for radeon 7 on release day as did many others.

Yea...I agree. For a 3090 they can charge £1,200 and be pretty happy with that undercut. I certainly wouldn't chuck that much at an AMD GPU without proven RT and a DLSS equivalent.

 

[humbug]

Indeed, i think we are in a world where numbers and specs matter little if the pipeline is under utilised, none of the numbers really matter, only performance.

People still look at specs as if they are relevant, especially when you have not too bright "influencers" like JayZ2Cents conflating IPC with Mhz because he doesn't know the difference, so 5Ghz is better than 4.6Ghz.

Or at least he used to, his understanding of hardware was at about the level of a Curry's PCWorld shop floor assistant. Tho i was surprised to see to see him explain Zen 2's lower per clock performance vs productivity as the intcore latency problem that it is and explain it in a way that a layman would understand. Shock!

He must have been sick of being called out for being an idiot and brushed up on his knowledge.

In any case this where people get their understanding from, tech reviewers with 2m subscribers, i think if you have that level of influence you have a responsibility to make sure you know what you're talking about.

 

[Nablaoperator]

Im on the cusp of getting my 3090 but I will happily jump back to AMD if their card is anywhere between 3080-3090 and their RT is half decent.

Its mostly at pricing now.. 128 ROPs, if true, is aiming at a large resolution and will probably come loaded with lots of ram
if it is a $1199 card then it would be best to wait for exhaustive third party reviews and make a holistic decision..
at those price levels you will like to consider the full package and not get hung up on few 100 dollars or small single digit fps differences

 

[humbug]

I hope Nvidia's days of Milking customers are over.

 

[Nablaoperator]

I hope Nvidia's days of Milking customers are over.

I would still watch out for nvidia's response..
a 3090 12GB SKU for 899 might be too sweet to ignore

 

[Richdog]

I would still watch out for nvidia's response..
a 3090 12GB SKU for 899 might be too sweet to ignore

That config wouldn't even make sense, and come on... do you really think that simply reducing the spec by 12GB GDDR6x would result in a £700 reduction? lol...

 

[Nablaoperator]

That wouldn't even make sense.

Why? upto 15% greater perf than 3080 at 4K.. with SLi just for kicks

 

[g67575]

comparing the RTX 2080 TI to RTX 3090, its clear that the main improvement is in the more than 2x shader unit count. but, as this wasnt achieved by increasing the SM count (much), we dont see much increase in the TMU count, which is tied to the SM / CU count in AMD / NV GPUs. And the ROP count was only increased by 24.

So it could be argued that the RTX 3090 is short on TMUs and ROPs, which could explain the lower than expected perf. increase vs the RTX 2080 TI.

The pixel rate was increased by 39.5% vs the RTX 2080 Ti.
The texture rate was increased by 32.3%.

The overall perf. improvement is about 31% vs the RTX 2080 Ti at 4k, according to this link:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/zotac-geforce-rtx-3090-trinity/32.html

 

[Nablaoperator]

do you really think that simply reducing the spec by 12GB GDDR6x would result in a £700 reduction? lol...

hmm.. i dont know if you have been following the reviews
the 3090 is aimed at semi professionals.. they have no option but to buy it.. cant be buying the 12GB variant
further there might be some driver optimisations (or rather debottlenecking) for 2D performance on 3090..

Edit: I am speaking in $'s .. so its more like $600

 

[ljt]

Oh ok.....

2 Weeks and all this will be over.

But then it'll be waiting for proper reviews because we can't trust the reveal event numbers because they'll show their best hand etc, just like with ampere reveal - 3080, twice the performance of 2080!!*

*revealed to only be in ray tracing

So we'll be back to square one again come the 28th

 

[gpuerrilla]

Agreed. If it's only marginally slower, it will have to be at least £100 to tempt folks. Especially if they don't show a robust RTX or DLSS equivalent.

AMD rarely charge more than nvidia. They know their RT isnt on the same level so they wont pretend it is but offer a choice using the hybrid techniques like in consoles and DX. I think they will play it safe and go $50 or thereabout cheaper than nvidia with some places widening that margin by up to $100.

Where it will get interesting is scenarios where the AMD hardware has the advantage, also the power draw.

 

[gpuerrilla]

And the other die hards pitching forks

LOL so true!

 

[Rroff]

AMD rarely charge more than nvidia. They know their RT isnt on the same level so they wont pretend it is but offer a choice using the hybrid techniques like in consoles and DX. I think they will play it safe and go $50 or thereabout cheaper than nvidia with some places widening that margin by up to $100.

Where it will get interesting is scenarios where the AMD hardware has the advantage, also the power draw.

It is going to be interesting to see the prices - I'm pretty sure a big factor of why nVidia went Samsung 8nm is because of the price difference so it is going to make it hard for AMD to price keenly against them.

 

[humbug]

I would still watch out for nvidia's response..
a 3090 12GB SKU for 899 might be too sweet to ignore

Oh i hope they do...... either way we get cheaper GPU's.

AMD have to look at it this way, If AMD push Nvidia into a price war at least Nvidia won't be enjoying those high margins they are used to. AMD's margins, Market share and revenue from GPU's is already rock bottom. Anything they gain from GPU's that actually make Nvidia sweat is a win.

They did this to Intel and gained a tonne of market share and revenue from it while at the same time knocking Intel down a few pegs in the mind of enthusiasts, many people now think AMD are just plain better than Intel.

AMD have to take the fight to Nvidia to grow themselves, running scared and being content with the scraps because you fear what Nvidia might do will get them nowhere. AMD should have learned this by now.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Why? upto 15% greater perf than 3080 at 4K.. with SLi just for kicks

If they did that (with SLI/NVlink), the 3090 would be dead to prosumers (which is why it is priced so high in the first place). Get the same amount of RAM, with significantly faster rendering performance for slightly more than a single 3090.

 

[Nablaoperator]

comparing the RTX 2080 TI to RTX 3090, its clear that the main improvement is in the more than 2x shader unit count. but, as this wasnt achieved by increasing the SM count (much), we dont see a proportionate increase in the TMU count, which is tied to the SM / CU count in AMD / NV GPUs. And the ROP count was only increased by 24.

So it could be argued that the RTX 3090 is short on TMUs and ROPs, which could explain the lower than expected perf. increase vs the RTX 2080 TI.

The pixel rate was increased by 39.5% vs the RTX 2080 Ti.
The texture rate was increased by 32.3%.

Not really, Ampere and Turing CUDA cores cant be compared..
i know for sure that Turing had a separate dedicated set of INT ALUs (35% of shader workload as per Nvidia)
though i am not entirely sure about Turing's fp16, i believe it was 2x fp32 execution rate (get that verified whenever you have an opportunity)
since 3090 can theoretically do 8K with DLSS.. i believe ROPs are probably not being bottlenecked
dont know much about TMUs though