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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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LoadsaMoney said:
Yeah as ive added to my post, i just found Dirt 5 is released on PC, the 6th November, so AMDs cards, will be running RT on PC, before Cyberpunks released, so hell on avoided, although id still expect some, with Cyberpunk being the biggest game of the year (probably) :p
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Good find. Does seem it is more than likely Nvidia has greased some palms to make that happen. I just can't see AMD, Sony and MS willingly agreeing to delay RT implementation for 4 months. Especially since it would help shift more next gen consoles.
 
Vince said:
That's why we are here and it's good to not agree with all the waffle that I put in here. As I see it, until there is a compelling game/games that people look at and it blows them away, it just isn't going to happen. It's only going to happen when people look at something and it looks like a proper generational leap - You only have to look at the number of people that went in on 1k worth of kit to play Alyx - Release a DXR game like that and that in my opinion is where the market begins to take off.
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It's in the new consoles, it's in 2 generations of nvidia cards, it's about to be in the new AMD cards. There's enough install base now to start having it just creeping in to games like other "ultra" graphics settings start to appear.

People don't have to go crazy for it, they're already buying it.
 
Rroff said:
Makes sense if N22 covers the space from a 5700XT replacement through to 3060ti type performance and N21 3070 and 3080 competitors. Those 50% perf/watt etc. refinements don't translate into getting an extra 50% in game performance as some seem to be seeing it - a lot of that will be things like power gating giving you 10-30% of the power saving as potential frequency uplift, etc.
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It makes 0 sense because we know that 34CUs, 32ROPs and a 192 bit bus fit in 160mm² by comparing Series S to Series X. Add in a bit for PCIe and you get a GPU that is faster and smaller than the proposed N23 die.

A 350ish mm² part that only goes upto 2080s performance is a massive perf/mm² regression.
 
Poneros said:
Plus people pretend like there's not all sorts of limitations to RT but the truth is they still have to gimp the effects in various way just to make it playable, so yeah, it's nice that we're getting closer to a real simulation of light but at the same time, let's keep it real - it's very far away from being done properly EVEN in the path-traced games like Quake II & Minecraft. There's a lot being excluded that's in the world from the effects, distances are still short, resolutions are still low, and on and on it goes. It's not just "is it ray-traced?" it's more like how much is it ray-traced? And in general I'd say we're somewhere around 10-20% in terms of RT progress.
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Since the last update there is very little if anything excluded from effects in Quake 2 RTX, reflections are full resolution and refraction/reflection depth can be user controlled. The distance is constrained but only noticeable in very wide open spaces (larger than the distances in most Quake 2 maps). The biggest optimisation really is that only the sun uses multiple bounces, etc. and all other emissive sources are constrained in complexity for performance reasons - though still more advanced than dynamic lights using traditional techniques. A few effects are missing but I think that is more for want of dev time than performance/complexity reasons i.e. water does refractions through it but scattered light bouncing off the water surface itself hasn't been properly implemented.

timorous said:
It makes 0 sense because we know that 34CUs, 32ROPs and a 192 bit bus fit in 160mm² by comparing Series S to Series X. Add in a bit for PCIe and you get a GPU that is faster and smaller than the proposed N23 die.

A 350ish mm² part that only goes upto 2080s performance is a massive perf/mm² regression.
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I wouldn't judge too much from the consoles - there are architectural differences where features are implemented in software rather than hardware or handled in hardware off or partially off the GPU core, differences in caching compared to PC requirements and so on differing the space required.

This is why it is rare for a game that is optimised for console to translate to meaning anything on PC despite people getting excited about what and whose hardware is in the console.
 
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Rroff said:
I wouldn't judge too much from the consoles - there are architectural differences where features are implemented in software rather than hardware or handled in hardware off or partially off the GPU core, differences in caching compared to PC requirements and so on differing the space required.

This is why it is rare for a game that is optimised for console to translate to meaning anything on PC despite people getting excited about what and whose hardware is in the console.
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Series X is already around 2080s performance in a 360mm² SoC.

Remove the CPU and other bits and you have something around 300mm² or less that if fully utilised (56 CUs) and given desktop tier clockspeeds of around 2.2Ghz would be around 2080Ti/3070 performance.

If N22 is tops out at 3060Ti performance it is a failure when they have designed and built a faster and smaller part already.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Good find. Does seem it is more than likely Nvidia has greased some palms to make that happen. I just can't see AMD, Sony and MS willingly agreeing to delay RT implementation for 4 months. Especially since it would help shift more next gen consoles.
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Lol they'd have just given a truck load of RTX 30xx's to CDPR staff and their family..
Greetings from Nvidia!
 
timorous said:
If navi 22 is 300+mm² like rumoured then that would be a huge performance / mm regression.

For the rumoured die sizes to make sense N23 must be around 5700XT performance and N22 needs to be around 2080Ti/3070 performance.

Anything less means AMD might as well only make a token amount (of gpus) to ensure enough supply of Zen3 and Cerzanne.
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Navi 22 is the 3070 competitor as for Navi 23, then Navi 24, your guess is as good as mine as to where their performance starts.
 
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