AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

RBImGuy · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:27

humbug said:
Aprently as soon as Raja left Lisa moved half the Zen team in there.

Well the winning move was to fire Raja as he tried to mess with the company.
adding zenengineers to the graphics was expected to benefit from the experiences.
AMD is about to make a huge leap with the upcoming cards vs what they been able to do due to the bulldozer era almost killed them off.
and having the clockspeed speed increases will make AIB and OC customers happy

Tommy_Here · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:37

RBImGuy said:
Well the winning move was to fire Raja as he tried to mess with the company.
adding zenengineers to the graphics was expected to benefit from the experiences.
AMD is about to make a huge leap with the upcoming cards vs what they been able to do due to the bulldozer era almost killed them off.
and having the clockspeed speed increases will make AIB and OC customers happy

I agree! Zen2 ipc was incredible imo.. all that was lacking was clockspeed now it seems like they have nailed that (I imagine ZEN3 cpu's hitting all cores 4.8-5.0ghz) whilst also offering higher ipc than ZEN2) which imo will be fantastic... and if these benchmarks are indeed from a cut down big navi chip then the full fat version may challenge the 3090.. all AMD have to do is price it right and they'll have winnders on their hand.

TrM · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:40

Tommy_Here said:
I agree! Zen2 ipc was incredible imo.. all that was lacking was clockspeed now it seems like they have nailed that (I imagine ZEN3 cpu's hitting all cores 4.8-5.0ghz) whilst also offering higher ipc than ZEN2) which imo will be fantastic... and if these benchmarks are indeed from a cut down big navi chip then the full fat version may challenge the 3090.. all AMD have to do is price it right and they'll have winnders on their hand.

you say that but we’ve seen with the zen 3 they beat intel so price is higher

if they do the same to the 3080 then I can see amd command there own price

amd have shown a willingness to match and better intel on price and same with the 5700xt. Everyone wanting a cheaper amd product won’t want the 6800xt version beating nvidia they need it slightly behind not infront

edit: I don’t have much faith in companies for bringing price down we they have the better product or performance. Amd have show this time after time so has intel and nvidia have for a few generations now

RBImGuy · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:45

Tommy_Here said:
I agree! Zen2 ipc was incredible imo.. all that was lacking was clockspeed now it seems like they have nailed that (I imagine ZEN3 cpu's hitting all cores 4.8-5.0ghz) whilst also offering higher ipc than ZEN2) which imo will be fantastic... and if these benchmarks are indeed from a cut down big navi chip then the full fat version may challenge the 3090.. all AMD have to do is price it right and they'll have winnders on their hand.

TrM said:
you say that but we’ve seen with the zen 3 they beat intel so price is higher if they do the same to the 3080 then I can see amd command there own price amd have shown a willingness to match and better intel on price and same with the 5700xt. Everyone wanting a cheaper amd product won’t want the 6800xt version beating nvidia they need it slightly behind not infront

Price at high end will always be more and also never really, realistic.
add no cards to buy and high demand and you have a horrible market...
if you game at 1080p and 1440p which is the majority then a big navi 6700 card is likely around 2080ti performances and may be the card to upgrade to for ultimate gameplay with big navis for the majority of gamers. 600+ euros isn't my price range and it is going to be interesting to view oct 28 event for performances and price ranges.

Wrinkly · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:50

Nablaoperator said:
it's supposed to be the engineering sample..some headroom there

Bad time to buy a video card then if true. I want the RT performance where Nvidia wins and AMD loses. Here in this chart we see AMD win in the area most people want, rasterization. This has to force Nvidia to release something far better than the 3080 in the next 6months meaning the 30 series is DOA and will have poor support.

Can AMD improve it's RT performance? Fingers crossed

Dontrocktheboat · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:53

RBImGuy said:
Well the winning move was to fire Raja as he tried to mess with the company.
adding zenengineers to the graphics was expected to benefit from the experiences.
AMD is about to make a huge leap with the upcoming cards vs what they been able to do due to the bulldozer era almost killed them off.
and having the clockspeed speed increases will make AIB and OC customers happy

People are very quick to blame Raja for all of AMDs previous failures. Blame one man, one scapegoat, done. :rolleyes:

This is simply not true. Watch this video and find the real reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTwP-BfDgso

AMD simply gave up on PC GFX development whilst working on the new consoles.
Raja was stuck in a lose-lose situation, with no resources so he walked, and he might still might have the last laugh with Intel.

Karma can be a b&&&&

RBImGuy · 23 Oct 2020 at 11:58

Dontrocktheboat said:
People are very quick to blame Raja for all of AMDs previous failures. Blame one man, one scapegoat, done.

This is simply not true. Watch this video and find the real reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTwP-BfDgso

AMD simply gave up on PC GFX development whilst working on the new consoles.
Raja was stuck in a lose-lose situation, with no resources so he walked, and he might still might have the last laugh with Intel.

Karma can be a b&&&&

He wasn't blamed for his failures, he tried to split the company.
That is the first clue you should pay attention to and not make up stuff you don't understand.
That he didn't have the resources and all he had to do was wait for zen to change the landscape and give him more later.
Now david wang outshine Raja by far and not trying to mess with the company like Raja did and was fired for.

yea karma is bad for Intel second tier company now no wonder they hired Raja.

and I guess this is why amd hired david wang

https://www.pcworld.com/article/327...early-gpu-releases-to-make-pcs-fun-again.html

LePhuronn · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:02

Funny that a lot of internal politics kicked off at Intel when Raja arrived. Murthy enforcing an iron grip because Raja (allegedly) was attempting to manoeuvre up the corporate ladder. Big dick swinging rather than getting house in order, apparently one of the contributing factors to Jim Keller walking as early as he did.

DDH · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:16

RBImGuy said:
He wasn't blamed for his failures, he tried to split the company.
That is the first clue you should pay attention to and not make up stuff you don't understand
That he didn't have the resources and all he had to do was wait for zen to change the landscape and give him more later.
Now david wang outshine Raja by far and not trying to mess with the company like Raja did and was fired for.

yea karma is bad for Intel second tier company now no wonder they hired Raja.

and I guess this is why amd hired david wang

https://www.pcworld.com/article/327...early-gpu-releases-to-make-pcs-fun-again.html

People making up stuff they don't understand is the barrier to entry for this thread

humbug · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:19

There was a lot of political conflict at AMD when Raja was there, The RTG Group was formed to apease Raja who wanted to split Graphics off AMD completely, of course with him at the top of this new independant graphics company, the RTG Group was a compramise.

That didn't calm the politicking. Raja was not 'offisially' sacked, no excutive ever is, i do think he was told to go by Lisa, the moment he was out she moved her own team in and BAM! She doubled his Vega Intergrated Graphics performance while at the same time cutting power in half, just like that....

Intel are now stuck with him, i say that because i don't believe he's much good.

gpuerrilla · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:20

...

Any more navi leaks?

Grim5 · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:32

Wrinkly said:
Bad time to buy a video card then if true. I want the RT performance where Nvidia wins and AMD loses. Here in this chart we see AMD win in the area most people want, rasterization. This has to force Nvidia to release something far better than the 3080 in the next 6months meaning the 30 series is DOA and will have poor support.

Can AMD improve it's RT performance? Fingers crossed

Keep in mind, Navi 21 is losing in Timespy and winning in Firestrike. The 5700xt also loses in Timespy and wins in Firestrike to the 2070 Super, yet the 2070 Super is 5-10% faster in gaming.

Point being, don't place too much faith in 3d mark scores, they don't reflect real world games.

humbug · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:35

Grim5 said:
Keep in mind, Navi 21 is losing in Timespy and winning in Firestrike. The 5700xt also loses in Timespy and wins in Firestrike to the 2070 Super, yet the 2070 Super is 10% faster in gaming.

Point being, don't place too much faith in 3d mark scores, they don't reflect real world games

The 2070 super is not 10% faster in gaming than the 5700XT, trust me its not.

gpuerrilla · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:40

Grim5 said:
Keep in mind, Navi 21 is losing in Timespy and winning in Firestrike. The 5700xt also loses in Timespy and wins in Firestrike to the 2070 Super, yet the 2070 Super is 5-10% faster in gaming.

This is false and debunked in the HU video only a few weeks ago.

Grim5 · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:44

Th0nt said:
This is false and debunked in the HU video only a few weeks ago.

thats not what Techpowerup and Guru3d benchmarks that I just looked up show

humbug · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:45

You could cherry pick games like BL3 and show up the 5700XT compared with the 2070 Super, if you cherry pick newer games than that you can turn that on its head and make the 2070 Super look slower, copmare them in Forza and the AMD card kicks the absolute snot out of the Nvidia one, overall in the real world i was surrised how almost identical they are.

Gregster · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:58

I love how many experts are on these forums. People arguing over why Raja left/sacked AMD and reading their responses, you would think they were in the board meetings.

Wrinkly · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:59

Grim5 said:
Keep in mind, Navi 21 is losing in Timespy and winning in Firestrike. The 5700xt also loses in Timespy and wins in Firestrike to the 2070 Super, yet the 2070 Super is 5-10% faster in gaming.

Point being, don't place too much faith in 3d mark scores, they don't reflect real world games.

I've not cancelled my 3080 yet, but it's edging towards a foolish purchase.

pugheaven · 23 Oct 2020 at 12:59

RBImGuy said:
some igor hum hum predicted aka estimated results

https://www.igorslab.de/en/3dmark-in-ultra-hd-benchmarks-the-rx-6800xt-without-and-with-raytracing/

If that was right, we'd basiclaly be looking at AMD increasing 100% over the 5700XT which would be the greatest comback since Rocky 3.... if it's true great but...

hyperseven · 23 Oct 2020 at 13:01

humbug said:
You could cherry pick games like BL3 and show up the 5700XT compared with the 2070 Super, if you cherry pick newer games than that you can turn that on its head and make the 2070 Super look slower, copmare them in Forza and the AMD card kicks the absolute snot out of the Nvidia one, overall in the real world i was surrised how almost identical they are.

Except when it doesn't, had a look at the fh4 bench thread and sorry to say you are wrong.