AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[chris85oc]

lol people still going on like RT is the second coming of christ... as has been said MANY NUMEROUS TIMES... RT is still not ready for mainstream, we are probably 2 - 3 GPU generations away from it being ready for mainstream, seriously, i definitely wont be buying any hardware based off RT performance. Especially given RT is in a handful of games and is now the latest "cool must have" so people are strapping and bolting it into stuff just for the Wow factor and to also be part of the me too.

It its current state its garbage, plain and simple, a cleverly marketed garbage feature to get the sheeple to gobble down more of Nvidias dross, and it looks like theres quite a few suckers here who have swallowed it whole and now regurgitating its dross everywhere.

Give it another few GPU Generations then we may be ready for mainstream Ray Tracing, until then keep living in your fantasy worlds with bolted on Ray Tracing and basking in the glow of JHH's Leather Jacket as it disco balls light beams everywhere for you into your eyes, heart and soul!

What makes you think YOU’RE not the one living in the fantasy world. I mean, RT might not matter to you but that doesnt mean others cant/dont enjoy it and actually appreciate it as a feature.

Either way its pathetic imo. Sony will be the only ones not being held back by the lowest common denominator which means they’re probably gonna have the best looking games this gen for the most part, even counting pcs. Sure you might have higher res/ more fps/better ‘resolution’ RT on PC with next gen gpus in multiplat games but even then, Sonys games will push RT in some crazy looking first party games.

Was the same this gen. Sure i got some RT goodness first on PC, sure i can play in 3440x1440 144 hz on my monitor or 4k 60 on my OLED but ps4pro first party games couldnt be touched visually by anything on PC.

TLDR sony will have the only big budget RT only games nextgen (PS5). In other words fully pathtraced amazing looking games since it doesnt have to cater to the ******** version (XBSS) and it funds big AAA games in its first party studios (unlike PC). Even if they’ll run at 1080p 30fps the -proper RT- will make up for it instead of some reflections there and maybe better shadows here ( pretty much quake2 or minecraft RTX but with uptodate engine/models etc )

 

[Rroff]

lol people still going on like RT is the second coming of christ...

Choose your words carefully - bashing the current implementations sure they are mostly woeful and a joke but a proper RT implementation is a whole different story and for many in graphics it will be akin to the second coming of Christ.

Besides a lot of these comments are just reactionary defence of AMD - the moment AMD isn't at a disadvantage you can bet people will very quickly change their tune on RT...

 

[KentMan]

Choose your words carefully - bashing the current implementations sure they are mostly woeful and a joke but a proper RT implementation is a whole different story and for many in graphics it will be akin to the second coming of Christ.

Besides a lot of these comments are just reactionary defence of AMD - the moment AMD isn't at a disadvantage you can bet people will very quickly change their tune on RT...

This just reinforces my point "Proper RT Implementation" you and i both know we are many years from that, unless we all want to play games that look like they are still in 1993 (Quake, Minecraft etc). As you have rightly pointed out, which reinforces my arguement, a proper RT game is built from the ground up, not just bolted on like we are currently seeing. And to build from the ground up, we are many years away from acceptable FPS and quality what we demand of current generation games, it is that simple.

So no, i think i will carry on trashing RT in its current form as it will do more harm than good for RT in the longterm, if this is all we are getting it will tarnish the reputation of the tech before its even out of its infancy. I just wish every developer and his monkey would not be so keen to keep ramming it into games as a side effect and lowering the overall experience with it, and for that you can pretty much put the blame squarely at Nvidias feet, as its their current dross they are using to sell their woeful products.

Also you can bet i will be disabling any form of RT on my games when i pickup either a 3080 or an AMD equivalent, and hopefully can switch it off on my Xbox Series X, id rather have the pure FPS, not like im going to stand around basking in the glow (pun intended).

As ive said numerous times, RT is a setting for Screenshots only right now and will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[z10m]

T

We have only seen 1-2 stills from it unless I have missed footage, we will see how it actually is when it's released.

There is video about it from Digital Foundry.
Yes it does look better but not that much in my opinion and it runs at 30fps.

 

[Rroff]

This just reinforces my point "Proper RT Implementation" you and i both know we are many years from that, unless we all want to play games that look like they are still in 1993 (Quake, Minecraft etc). As you have rightly pointed out, which reinforces my arguement, a proper RT game is built from the ground up, not just bolted on like we are currently seeing. And to build from the ground up, we are many years away from acceptable FPS and quality what we demand of current generation games, it is that simple.

So no, i think i will carry on trashing RT in its current form as it will do more harm than good for RT in the longterm, if this is all we are getting it will tarnish the reputation of the tech before its even out of its infancy. I just wish every developer and his monkey would not be so keen to keep ramming it into games as a side effect and lowering the overall experience with it, and for that you can pretty much put the blame squarely at Nvidias feet, as its their current dross they are using to sell their woeful products.

So will senselessly trashing it.

We need to get some traction on this tech and the more people do it down and the slower adoption is the longer that will take... tech wise we aren't years from it - market adoption wise and getting developers to use it is another matter.

The path tracer used in Quake 2 RTX is not restricted to running games that look decades old - performance in a game that was created with modern level of detail and shader complexity but with the path tracer used would perform only slightly slower.

It is plainly obvious your main motivation is knee jerk defence of AMD rather than any real concern about the technology.

If the latest GPUs were rebalanced hardware wise for purely path tracing application, without having to worry about rendering older games, and games developed exclusively to use it we'd be pretty much there as far as performance goes.

 

[chris85oc]

RT rep can't be tarnished considering anyone who has a modicum of knowledge of how rendering is done knows that's the way you get photorealistic graphics and how animation movies /effects in movies are made.

Also AMD has the upper hand "kind of" .. well not them specifically but thing is, on PC / XBX like i said before you only get multiplat games which will have to cater to PC users that don't have RT cards / XBox Series S (which wont do RT in all games). So RT-only games with big budgets wont happen on PC/XBSX/XBSS only on PS5. And ps5 uses AMD hardware so i guess in that case you could argue that AMD "wins".

Will most likely take until end of 2021-start of 2022 to start seeing them but when they'll start coming out, oh my...

 

[z10m]

I own spiderman on the ps4 and ps5 miles morales looks way better in action.

I appreciate we have hardened pc enthusiasts here but lets not lose track of the fact that a ps5 digital edition is half the price of a pc gpu that youd struggle to find in stock.

yes I own it too on PS4 Pro and from what I’ve seen so far (Digital Foundry video) it doesn’t look that much better.

 

[KentMan]

So will senselessly trashing it.

We need to get some traction on this tech and the more people do it down and the slower adoption is the longer that will take... tech wise we aren't years from it - market adoption wise and getting developers to use it is another matter.

The path tracer used in Quake 2 RTX is not restricted to running games that look decades old - performance in a game that was created with modern level of detail and shader complexity but with the path tracer used would perform only slightly slower.

It is plainly obvious your main motivation is knee jerk defence of AMD rather than any real concern about the technology.

If the latest GPUs were rebalanced hardware wise for purely path tracing application, without having to worry about rendering older games, and games developed exclusively to use it we'd be pretty much there as far as performance goes.

Then we would need 2 GPUs like we used 3D accelerators back in the day.

And no i am not just trashing it in Defence of AMD, as ive stated, im happy to buy a 3080 Or whatever AMD has, but i will be turning it off where possible as the tech is just not ready or fit for purpose yet. And i am not one of the people who has been blinded by JHH heralding it as a new dawn as im competent enough to see through his shambolic lies, it is currently still a pure marketing move to shift units, that is all. Its no secret Nvidia literally pay game devs to implement their dross so they have an angle to push their products, that is something i actually applaud them for, atleast they are trying to innovate. I just wish they wouldnt be so forceful in pushing tech that is just not ready yet and claiming it as a win and a must have. If they eased off the throttle and were actually honest and said upfront "this is a sample of what we will be using in the next 5+ years, but you can try it now with limitations and early infancy implementations" then people would have more respect for them.

Fact is right now the current implementations of RT are woefully short outside of Minecraft and Quake, but those 2 games look like were still playing in the 90s, although technically impressive and i applaud them for it, i dont want to play games that look like i was playing them 20 years ago texturewise.

To be fair Nvidia and AMD would be better restricting any form of RT on cards that cannot run it at 1080p 60FPS, as anything below that just leaves a sour taste in the mouth, AMD are equally to blame for its woeful console implementations, or maybe that Sony and MS for potentially insisting its there? who knows.

 

[Richdog]

So will senselessly trashing it.

We need to get some traction on this tech and the more people do it down and the slower adoption is the longer that will take... tech wise we aren't years from it - market adoption wise and getting developers to use it is another matter.

The path tracer used in Quake 2 RTX is not restricted to running games that look decades old - performance in a game that was created with modern level of detail and shader complexity but with the path tracer used would perform only slightly slower.

It is plainly obvious your main motivation is knee jerk defence of AMD rather than any real concern about the technology.

If the latest GPUs were rebalanced hardware wise for purely path tracing application, without having to worry about rendering older games, and games developed exclusively to use it we'd be pretty much there as far as performance goes.

People are free to say whatever the hell they like about RT and just because people don't think it is mature or useful at this point in time does not mean that they are AMD shills. People can objectively think badly RT without automatically being linked to a fanboy of a brand. Posting these opinions on a forum is also realistically going to have no tangible impact on its adoption.

You like to peddle this impression of calm all-knowingness and get annoyed when people question your infinite wisdom, and yet you are behaving very childishly and not a little neurotically with all of this Nvidia vs AMD crap that you seem to be constantly shoehorning into these threads.

 

[Hedge]

If RT is going to become mainstream it needs to be affordable. If it costs £800 to implement it effectively then it's a long way off.

 

[Nablaoperator]

Some chatter about 128MB infinity cache on reddit (speculation)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jiivr3/linux_patch_for_infinity_cache_128mb_on_the_dot/

There's an if block that checks surface_size against 128 to set refresh rates.. (lol, I would need some help to internalise reddit conclusions)..

 

[Rroff]

People are free to say whatever the hell they like about RT and just because people don't think it is mature or useful at this point in time does not mean that they are AMD shills. People can objectively think badly RT without automatically being linked to a fanboy of a brand. Posting these opinions on a forum is also realistically going to have no tangible impact on its adoption.

You like to peddle this impression of calm all-knowingness and get annoyed when people question your infinite wisdom, and yet you are behaving very childishly and not a little neurotically with all of this Nvidia vs AMD crap that you seem to be constantly shoehorning into these threads.

Sure they can but don't expect me to just pass over when people are talking rubbish - the path tracer in Quake 2 isn't restricted to rendering 1993 looking games - (Quake 2 was a 1997 title anyhow but even then the RTX build has updated textures, etc. anyhow) - it is fully capable of rendering stuff like this without any significant slowdown over the stock map level of detail:



(When I've got a bit more time I'll put together a proper demo scene - though I lack both in artistic talent and the time to build a proper implementation stand alone from Quake 2's geometry limitations)

Unlike some I'm not just blinded by the RTX marketing (or the opposite perspective from those who trash it - mostly who are doing it from a defence of AMD) but actually playing with this stuff to see what is and isn't possible.

 

[KentMan]

If RT is going to become mainstream it needs to be affordable. If it costs £800 to implement it effectively then it's a long way off.

This is the problem that Rroff does not seem to grasp, if your product stack is all being sold as "supporting Ray Tracing" and the high end stuff is struggling to use it, the low end stuff has zero chance of doing it at all at any playable frame rate. Considering the majority of GPU buyers are at the low to mid section, so around the 3060 level and probably lower, how is this helping drive the innovation of the tech??? that experience is nothing short of terrible. And having to use crutch tech like DLSS to support it, just highlights how we are not ready for mainstream use of the technology. Like i said, limit it to the extreme high end with a caveat that its being limited to their due to the sheer amount of horsepower it requires and even then you are going to struggle.

But no, Nvidia "RTX for the Masses!!" oh dear, and this is where we end up, with fanboy defense of Nvidias Raytracing.

 

[Nablaoperator]

Twitter update from kopite:
GA102-250-A1, 9984FP32, 384bits GD6X

https://mobile.twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1320998162744578048

Looks like 3090 is safe but 3080 isnt

 

[gpuerrilla]

This is the problem that Rroff does not seem to grasp, if your product stack is all being sold as "supporting Ray Tracing" and the high end stuff is struggling to use it, the low end stuff has zero chance of doing it at all at any playable frame rate. Considering the majority of GPU buyers are at the low to mid section, so around the 3060 level and probably lower, how is this helping drive the innovation of the tech??? that experience is nothing short of terrible. And having to use crutch tech like DLSS to support it, just highlights how we are not ready for mainstream use of the technology. Like i said, limit it to the extreme high end with a caveat that its being limited to their due to the sheer amount of horsepower it requires and even then you are going to struggle.

But no, Nvidia "RTX for the Masses!!" oh dear, and this is where we end up, with fanboy defense of Nvidias Raytracing.

Sorry to bang on about this, but I said it a few times now, if this is what we are saying then its even more pointless to offer ray tracing in products lower in the stack like 2060 all the way up to a 2070S. Yet people still bought them in droves to say "well if I want to do RTX then I can" which is not only really niche case but also a waste when it tanks performance below playable levels.

Months ago it was the same, guy asks 'recommend me a card' and it always had a person putting in the 'get a 20x0 as its got ray tracing if you need it' instead of the better value 5600/5700. Worse than banging your head on a brick wall, I just leave them threads alone now.

 

[gpuerrilla]

People are free to say whatever the hell they like about RT and just because people don't think it is mature or useful at this point in time does not mean that they are AMD shills. People can objectively think badly RT without automatically being linked to a fanboy of a brand. Posting these opinions on a forum is also realistically going to have no tangible impact on its adoption.

You like to peddle this impression of calm all-knowingness and get annoyed when people question your infinite wisdom, and yet you are behaving very childishly and not a little neurotically with all of this Nvidia vs AMD crap that you seem to be constantly shoehorning into these threads.

Best post you made to date for me!

 

[KentMan]

Twitter update from kopite:
GA102-250-A1, 9984FP32, 384bits GD6X

https://mobile.twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1320998162744578048

Looks like 3090 is safe but 3080 isnt

Looks like it might be a 3080ti https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/status/1320995908440436736

Hilarious if so, feel sorry for those that bought a 3090, what the perf difference between 3080 and 3090? like 15-20%? this sits between the two, probably around £1000 as well id guess? Nvidia in a right mess.

 

[Poneros]

Ready for prime time? Unlikely. This is with DLSS on Quality (4K), but extra details still at 0%. Note: it's not generally like this but this is a very reflections intensive area, which imo should be the barometer anyway for such effects, not just a single puddle in a scene.



I will say this though, there's definitely room for ray tracing as an ultra high-end option (I'm happy if these exist just for future hardware & for them being something extra when you play them again years down the line). It just isn't more than that right now, and not for years to come. I do wish it were, because I was playing KCD recently and I was just dreaming of RT shadows fixing so many of that game's shadows issues but then again, even SotTR only half-implemented RT shadows because they're just TOO EXPENSIVE! So I guess we're still many years out regardless. I'm still optimistic & hopeful for RT but I think the next 10 years will still be rasterisation-dominated and for good reasons.

 

[gpuerrilla]

God of war was so much fun!

This was a mint game must admit I was blown over by the visuals on the PS4. Awesome game.

Also...

...1 day to go now guys!!

 

[Nablaoperator]

Looks like it might be a 3080ti https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/status/1320995908440436736

Hilarious if so, feel sorry for those that bought a 3090, what the perf difference between 3080 and 3090? like 15-20%? this sits between the two, probably around £1000 as well id guess? Nvidia in a right mess.

3090 buyers will be ****** if Nvidia releases a larger GA101 on TSMC by July.. this looks like a much smaller concern

I believe pricing will be in reactionary mode.. depends on AMD