AMD on the road to recovery.

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So why aren't we seeing 3nm TSMC branded M2s and M2ultra? Come on, it's you that are not thinking this properly.

TSMC managed to crack the 3d stacking and packaging technology and offered that service to their clients. Just like they offer 7nm, 5nm, 3nm fabs. What's the difference?

https://3dfabric.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/3DFabric.htm

TSMC's 3DFabric offers our customers the ultimate flexibility in product design, brings packaging technologies to the forefront for innovation, and are critical to a product's performance, function and cost:

They have the packaging technology, it takes a CPU architect (this being AMD) to design the product.

I can design an NVMe external storage housing that can regulate the NMVe drives temperatures to keep it at optimal performance, send the CAD to a Chinese manufacture, not just any, one with the tooling to make the product, but that is their part in it, they make it, i designed it.

 

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Nobody said TSMC designed the product. But you can design all you want, without TSMC you are left with waste of paper.

I still don't get why you brought the TSMC 7950x example. Where are the TSMC M2's then?

OMfG.......!

 

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I don't know why people keep repeating this nonsense, but that never happened. Intel won the appeal and they are innocent. I don't know why people cant leave their bias aside and argue the facts. I mean come on now, it's like someone accusing you of murder, you are found innocent and then me bringing up for the next 20 years that you murdered someone, when in fact you didn't.

Intel Wins Appeal of Billion-Dollar EU Fine for Antitrust Actions Against AMD

EU court rules chip rebates not anticompetitive

www.tomshardware.com

Good, that's why I buy Intel, pay less - get more. I hope they keep on undercharging

You know what? Yeah keep going Intel..... I'm loosing my empathy here.

 

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Edited ^^^^ was the wrong quote.

 

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It did happen. There is plenty of evidence.
Intel used their usual dirty tricks. I know from experience. Intel just appealed and appealed and bought their way out.
That, my friend, is fact.

Let them, this isn't the early 2000's, Intel have already all but destroyed themselves sticking with these tactics, maybe another X86 competitor will rise from Intel's ashes.

 

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The proof is in the margins, Intel are having to sell ever lower to compete with AMD, they have already said this themselves, the margins on 13'th gen are virtually nothing, Intel's data-centre turnover is 4X as high as AMD's but they are only making a third as much profit from that as AMD, Intel make $200 Million from $4.5 Billion turn over in a quarter while AMD make $500 million profit from $1.6 Billion turnover.

Intel are no longer pulling all the leavers to stop AMD, they are just trying to stay relevant, that slide where Intel compared their cash stack to AMD's, remember that? Its all gone, guess what happened to it...

@Bencher AMD are laughing at Intel.

 

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So maybe EU took Intel to court to force them to build a fab in EU. I can make up stuff easily as well, that's not the hard part.

Did you actually read the freaking case? Of course you didn't, why would you, Intel = bad AMD = good. The court decided, with actual HARD numbers, that regardless whether Intel's practices were anticompetitive or not, they did no damage to AMD, cause AMD didn't have the capacity to actually sell more CPU's than they already did. They didn't have the production to cover the demand required.

But nevermind that, stick to Intel = bad. Good day to you

AMD offered a million CPU's to Dell, FOR FREE, Dell turned them down, telling AMD "we would lose money" that's how AMD knew something was up, so they ran an investigation and found that Intel had been paying OEM's not to use AMD CPU's, Dell was a witness to that in court.

 

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And still they didn't do anything illegal. I don't even know why you insist, the EU court found them innocent, what else can someone do to prove his innocence to you? You have to realize what you are doing is actually bonkers, and you wouldn't be doing that if it was amd instead. I can't fathom how you can, with a straight face, just discount EU high courts decision and go with your own personal biased beliefs. Don't you understand how ridiculous that is?

I agree with @Eddie99

It doesn't even matter now, AMD survived, just. And that tactic doesn't work anymore, Intel will kill themselves if they keep trying.

 

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Tuesday...

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) is set to post earnings after the bell on Tuesday. Shares of the California-based semiconductor company have risen sharply thus far in 2023, rebounding from about a 50% decline in 2022. While analysts remain broadly bullish, according to Seeking Alpha surveys, the stock has been downgraded multiple times shortly before the earnings release. Additionally, EPS and revenue expectations have been revised downward 28 and 29 times, respectively, in the 90 days ahead of the results.

“In recent months we have been growing more wary of potential PC dynamics, both given the market outlook as well as exacerbated by Intel's semi-destructive behavior as of late as they use both price and capacity as a strategic weapon, continuing to overship even amid broader breakdowns in the industry," Bernstein analyst Stacy Rasgon wrote in a note to clients, moving the firm’s rating on AMD to Hold.

Intel’s (INTC) inauspicious earnings result and guidance in the week prior weighed on shares of AMD ahead of the print.

Consensus EPS Estimates: $0.67
Consensus Revenue Estimates: $5.52B
Earnings Insight: AMD has beaten EPS and revenue in 7 of the past 8 quarters

Earnings week ahead: Amazon, Apple, Meta, Alphabet, ExxonMobil, GM, AMD and more

Meta Platforms (META), Apple (AAPL), Alphabet (GOOGL), Amazon (AMZN), Ford (F), GM (GM), AMD (AMD) and Exxon (XOM) are among the stocks to watch next week.

seekingalpha.com

both given the market outlook as well as exacerbated by Intel's semi-destructive behavior as of late as they use both price and capacity as a strategic weapon

Yeah we can see that...... its destructive alight.

 

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Intel and AMD have a colourful history, they have been arguing since the late 1970's, both feel that the other has done them wrong.

Intel was founded in 1968 by Robert Moore.
AMD was founded by Jerry Sanders in 1969.

Both came from the Fairchild Semi Conductor Company, they knew eachother, they were collogues.

In 1978, i think it was, Intel created X86, for all sorts of complicated reasons this was the start of the modern processor, before this you had far more simple logic possessors that you needed a PHD in computing science to use, AMD was the leading firm making those at the time.
IBM saw the potential in X86 and commissioned Intel to proved X86 chips for the "IBM PC" the Personal Computer as we know it today was born, however IBM was worried about supply and stipulated that Intel must also source manufacturing from AMD, at the time AMD had the worlds second largest fabs (yes that's right AMD weren't supply constrained, they were huge) this meant licensing X86 to AMD, which Intel did.
However AMD never received any orders from Intel, so far as Intel was concerned why should AMD benefit from our invention? Fair enough, eventually AMD reversed engineered Intel's chips and made their own anyway, Intel was more than a little annoyed about this. especially given that by the 1990's AMD's X86 designs were surpassing Intel's.
Eventually, by the mid 2000's AMD's X86 licensing was to expire, AMD created X64, or AMD64 and tagged that on to X86, creating X86_64, 64Bit computing in 2003, it was a huge success, data-centres bought in to it like it was free confectionery, Intel tried to combat AMD64 by creating their own X64, Itainium, it didn't work, Large, hot, slow, flawed. Intel was forced to adopt AMD's X64. that forced a cross licensing agreement that stands to this day.
Shortly after that AMD's market share hit parity with Intel.
That is the moment when Intel started paying people not to use AMD's CPU's, it caused a lot of damage, AMD went from selling at least as many CPU's as Intel to selling almost nothing virtually overnight. That along with the 2008 financial crash left AMD teetering on the brink of bankruptcy by 2012 to 2017.

One could argue AMD were situationally lucky in the 1980's and 1990's, sure i would not argue with that, but AMD have contributed more than enough of their own innovations over the decades to justify their existence in the X86 space, and still do, get over it Intel.

 

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What? I don't. Especially nvidia, hate them with a passion. But if they make better products, I buy them. That's it

You put a huge amount of energy running defence and advocacy for both Nvidia and Intel, you even defend Nvidia's pricing strategy, the extent to which you make arguments in favour of Intel or Nvidia are quite often frankly bonkers.

 

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Of course, and I would do the same for amd or apple. I defend facts and reality, not a specific company. It's just that usually it's amd fans that make the craziest stuff up. I mean, there is the obvious 4070ti example, best priced card of this generation, but everyone lost their minds about it. In the same time, AMD charges you more for the 7900XT, LOL

The 4070Ti is every bit as bad as the 7900XT.

What's the worst priced card? I suppose for you that is still the 7900XT, right?

 

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You're chewing on this for too long, it should be obvious.

 

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7900xt and 4080, they both fight hard to win the spot

The issue is, 4080 / xtx are kinda halo products, so it doesn't matter as much. The XT is supposed to be the more affordable card, so I expected much better value from it. The XTX convincingly beats the 4080 in raster while costing less, which means the XTX is the better product for the user that doesn't care about RT or the rest of the nvidia features. I mean the raster / $ of the XTX is pretty good.
The XT on the other hand can't even do that properly, since it offers worse raster / $ than the 4070ti. That I consider nuts, since AMD is lagging behind RT and other features, you at least expect their cards to pummel nvidia in raster / $.

The 4080 isn't even much better in RT.

Its around 50% better in Raster and RT than the 3080 its replaced, while being over 70% more expensive, it has the honour of being the fist card ever, i think, to have a lower cost to performance ratio than the card its succeeded. It is in that sense the most important product in our world, and people like you want to detract our attention from it to an AMD product that it is a stretch to argue is worse than another of this generation of Nvidia products.

 

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How much faster or more expensive it is from the 3080 is irrelevant. I mean if the 3080 was a terrible card, then the 4080 would be 100% better than it. Effectively what your comparison does is punishing nvidia for releasing a great xx80 card last gen. I mean that's common sense.

More mental gymnastics, this is what i'm talking about when i say "bonkers"

The 3080 was fairly priced for what it was, it was similar priced to its previous generations, it was nothing special, we are not talking about something that was unusually cheap and the 4080 is just bringing pricing normality back.

Its a terrible card for its money, you would actually use the word "shocking" to describe it, from £700 to £1200.

 

[humbug]

Its an £800 card, change my mind...

 

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Again, what you think of the 3080 is irrelevant. Making comparisons like that is absurd cause instead of looking at the current product, you are basing it's value on the previous gen product. But if the previous gen product was HORRIBLE, then your current product will look great, even though it might be average.

Other than that I don't know why you keep arguing about something we agree on, 4080 has bad value. Never argued otherwise. But the 4070ti doesn't - or to put it better -- it offers the best value out of all new cards. Yet people go crazy about it, while AMD has the 7900xt which is way worse.

This gibberish makes no sense.... now i have questions.

What do you think i think of the 3080?

But if the previous gen product was HORRIBLE, then your current product will look great

The 3080 was not horrible, do you think it was horrible? You're using a justification that even you don't agree with, "bonkers"

If the 4080 is 800 then how much is the XT and the XTX?

See that's exactly what im talking about and why I constantly have to defend amd. Cause of fans like you ignoring amd's HORRIBLE pricing and just targeting nvidia. Yes, the 4080 should be 800 while the XT is priced at 1k, makes sense

The XT less than £800, certainly. You're changing the subject.

 

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If I use your methodology, ie. comparing it to previous gen, 3080 was BONKERS good, since 2080 was crap. But because I don't agree with your methodology, the 3080 was okay, above average but nothing crazy. Pascal was a better generation.

No but im showing why your method is flawed.

Ok then why don't you focus on the XT or the XTX price instead? Not just you, the whole forum, there are 100 pages discussing nvidias prices when amds are just as horrible - arguably worse - at least for the lower end models

You're doubling down on your bonkers reasoning.

The 2080 was the same price.
The 1080 was £100 cheaper.

It was reasonable to expect the 4080 to go up by £100, 15%, as i say £800, that has been the trend. it went up £500, 72%.

Ok then why don't you focus on the XT or the XTX price instead?

I have, more than once on this forum.

What do you think the price of the 4080 should be?

 

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In a vacuum, 699€. In the current marketplace, when the cheapest XTX in Europe is 1199€ (and it's a reference model), while the cheapest 4080 is 1299€, I think the price is fine.

So 4 things here.

1, Why Euros? You're just confusing the whole thing, lets stick to US Dolars given that's the quoted MSRP.

2, You think the 4080 should be $699? Yes? so you think the 4080 is $500 over priced, that's 72%.

3, You think AMD are the lead price trend setter?

4, Isn't 72%, more overpriced than the 7900XT?

 

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IMHO I think that AMD is well on the way to recovery and Intel's terrible ER goes a long way to show that.

I get it, just wait a few more posts