AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

[KillBoY_UK]

Its kinda of ironic people seem to **** on HardOCP (and KitGuru) over stuff like this yet they just gave Fury's and 390x's a silver award in resent weeks and gave the Nano a gold awards even though they had to buy it themselves which dos'nt sound to salty to me. Goes to show if the product is good they will give it a good review AMD or not.

Heck they rip into ASrock boards all the time yet they are still willing to send them to Hardocp so AMD have little legs to stand on not sending review cards to Hardocp.

I guess time will tell

 

[D.P.]

Which would be things regarding performance,etc and certain technical details about the projects. These are the very things the competition would want to know about.

Plus he is the only one talking about problems,which seems to be timed conveniently with him not getting an invite. Most of the leaks about cards have come from Chinese forums like Chiphell,etc.

AMD has said months ago roughly what time of the year they are releasing the cards at and roughly what markets they are attacking.

I[m sure he is peed off so venting his frustration with knowledge that he has to tarnish AMD further. If he is outright lying we will know about it soon enough and he will loose all credibility and his website could be severely impacted.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I[m sure he is peed off so venting his frustration with knowledge that he has to tarnish AMD further. If he is outright lying we will know about it soon enough and he will loose all credibility and his website could be severely impacted.

Look at my last post - looking at the previous AMD parts which had 200MM2 to 250MM2 GPUs,the R9 390X level performance would be consistent and that is what we heard from one or two of the leaks. I fully expected it to have R9 390 to Fury level performance months ago.

This is why I don't expect miracles with Polaris 10 - I expect it will be a relatively cheap to make part which AMD can grow marketshare with especially at the mainstream level of the market and also for OEMs.

 

[fs123]

From the [H]OCP article:

The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 and 1070 launch was a surprise to AMD and it simply does not have a harpoon for Moby Dick this time...again. One could go as far as saying that the potential exists for another R600 moment. Now, I am sure AMD will take every step possible to mitigate this gap but the simple reality of the situation as it stands today is that AMD has a loser on its hands and are going to have to pull every trick in the book to spit-shine the turds, and the fact of the matter is pricing is how you do that.

He is saying AMD will offer lower prices to mitigate the gap. That is a blatant lie/twisting of fact since we all know that Polaris was never meant to compete in the high-end segments where the 1080 sits anyway, so any low prices announced will not be due to AMD's reaction to the 1070/1080.

According to AMD, Polaris is aimed at the low-mid segment so there should be no surprise that the prices will be lower.
Sadly,I suspect that [H]OCP will have suckered in many readers who actually will believe that AMD lowered prices because they couldn't beat the 1080.

 

[AlamoX]

But not being launched could be a sign of a problematic launch proving that the launch has been delayed... I think that makes sense

in all roadmaps AMD had polaris mid year, the fact that nvidia launched their cards doesnt mean AMD has to move everything forward to launch at the same time, especialy if the cards they are launching aren't going to compete with them, with that said and beside the fact the article sounds kind of vindictive. because to be honest even if the article is true the wording could have been a lot more professional than this, and a lot less vindictive.
exemple :

it faces an unprecedented amount of turmoil and uncertainty around its graphics business spurred by a lack of leadership, a newfound culture clash, and out-of-control egos eager to get into a DeLorean to rewind the clock to 2004.

this part in my opinion was really unnecessary, and practicaly useless to the article.

The fact that the launch is in Macau is also very telling. AMD has a reputation of holding GPU launches in exotic locations when trying to obscure a deficient product that doesn’t cut the mustard ( Anyone remember Tunis? ) – this is a Chris Hook special and something AMD’s current head of marketing has been doing for years. While you will no doubt hear AMD wax poetic next week on the merits of Polaris 10 and Polaris 11 and 14nm goodness the reality will be quite different.

good that AMD can choose where computex takes place...and he basicaly saying that all the reporters there are bought off, and that they will lie about polaris to the public, maybe he doesnt believe in journalism integrity anymore, or he have a crystal ball, but assumptions like these could have been worded diffrently, or dismissed entirely.


i found the article really lacking of professionnalisme, and way too agressive, one thing is sure i really hope it isn't true though, still crossing fingers for a good polaris/vega GPU.
what worries me is AMD pushing the clock higher trying to catch up with nvidia, and i would want to see AMD launching the card with lowest tdp possible with good thermals and good overclocking, rather than pushing the clock and tdp higher for some extra perf, leaving them with a hotter card, with higher tdp, and knowing how awkward they are with coolers, more condensed 14nm transistors will heat more than 28nm, so they are better off leaving that job for AIBs, and the + would be higher overclocking headroom, unfortunaly this is the kind of stupid decisions AMD could make, and they will end up with a product struggling with heat/noise/bad overclock/tdp AND still not good enough to performer for the competition.
pff anyway this article got me stressed out for AMD , hope for the best !

 

[Seanspeed]

Polaris 10 rumours low to mid range sorry, not just low end. I'm looking for upper mid range so what ever sits around the 290/390 to Fury space with the intention of running 1440P max Ultra settings at 100FPS or above

My 290X manages average 60FPS at those settings in most games but it dips to often and is affecting my games

Cool and quiet is another goal, my 290X is AIO cooled and I want the AIO out of my system, VR doesnt interest me at the moment

All that for max budget of £350 please, maybe I'm dreaming

Yes, you're probably dreaming.

Already, you probably aren't playing the more demanding modern games if you can play just about everything at 1440p/60fps and max settings with your 290X. I can assure you it'll struggle with a large majority of them nowadays.

I really think the 980Ti is basically 'bottom line' for those who want 1440p/60fps and high-ultra settings in just about anything. So unless Polaris 10 is about that level, which there's a good chance it wont be, I think you'll have to be looking at Nvidia for the time being. 1070 should be about that range, so long as you dont absolutely need every game at max settings(which is silly anyways) and will almost surely have offerings under £350. And I expect 980Ti's to come down to a similar price once the 1070 hits.

But we'll see. Polaris might surprise. I hope it does.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

 

[Mtom]

in all roadmaps AMD had polaris mid year, the fact that nvidia launched their cards doesnt mean AMD has to move everything forward to launch at the same time, especialy if the cards they are launching aren't going to compete with them, with that said and beside the fact the article sounds kind of vindictive. because to be honest even if the article is true the wording could have been a lot more professional than this, and a lot less vindictive.
exemple :

this part in my opinion was really unnecessary, and practicaly useless to the article.



good that AMD can chose where computex takes place...and he basicaly saying that all the reporters there are bought off, and that they will lie about polaris to the public, maybe he doesnt believe in journalism integrity anymore, or he have a crystal ball, but assumptions like these could have been worded diffrently, or dismissed entirely.
i found the article really lacking of professionnalisme, and way too agressive, one thing is sure i really hope it isn't true though, still crossing fingers for a good polaris/vega GPU

Considering Nvidia only launched 1 chip which will be the 1080-1070-and it seems the 1060 as well (bad yields yeah), and AMD launching two chips i don't see any problems with them coming a few weeks later.
Many people see the events as "Nvidia was months ahead of AMD" but in fact they only did a paper launch 3 weeks prior, and if AMD make a hard launch at E3, they are just about 2 weeks behind the Pascal.

 

[Shockwave]

Its just a shame Vega is so far away as I want an alternative to the 1080.

 

[D.P.]

Look at my last post - looking at the previous AMD parts which had 200MM2 to 250MM2 GPUs,the R9 390X level performance would be consistent and that is what we heard from one or two of the leaks. I fully expected it to have R9 390 to Fury level performance months ago.

This is why I don't expect miracles with Polaris 10 - I expect it will be a relatively cheap to make part which AMD can grow marketshare with especially at the mainstream level of the market and also for OEMs.

That is pretty much what i am expecting it to be.

 

[bru]

On the subject of the HardOCP article, it does seem to be a bit sour grapes, but saying that some of what he says has been rumoured elsewhere, so maybe there is something to some of it.

On Polaris being low end, well if it is only 390/x performance then I suppose it is, of course this is going from the perspective of all the guys saying that a certain NVidia 1080 is a mid range card. whereas if you think that these people are just trash talking NVidia, then a 390/x performing Polaris 10 would in fact be midrange with the high end going to the FuryX/980ti and probably 1070, with the 1080 being another 20/30% ahead.

But if you insist that the 1080 is midrange than Polaris 10 is low end.

Disclaimer: This comment will not be popular, I realise that, and it is not my intention to take this thread about Polaris off track by mentioning the 1080.

 

[OnionSpark]

You're... visiting the mountains in central Taiwan?

Not good timing, really - should be raining all this week! (Of course, they usually say that... )

 

[Rroff]

Good point, some of the speculation from others, like wccf could be deliberate to try and push AMD for real information.

They would not be so wrong to do it, AMD really do need to communicate more with their interested parties.

they conduct themselves with this wall of silence all the time, its no indication of anything right or wrong with AMD, the did the same thing with the 290X, complete silence while everyone predicted there was no way AMD could manage anything like matching the GTX Titan.
When AMD did eventually reveal what they had it was more than a match.
the same card is now trading blows with the GTX 980 3 years on.

Problem is AMD doesn't seem to know when silence serves them well - to often they are silent when they need to say something or say something when they um should have stayed silent :S

Right now though they need a GPU that is competitive with the 1070 - even if it was a little slower but broadly competitive, that is cost effective to both themselves (for profit) and to the customer that can blunt the 1080 sales as well as 1070 and shouting from the rooftops. Having the fastest card right now doesn't necessarily help AMD but having something that can run all the latest games at ultra settings 60fps and at a (more) reasonable cost to the consumer would be a big win.

 

[humbug]

Its all rumour mongering and sites like Anandtech and PCPER,etc don't seem to be having all these problems. Remember,PCPER developed FCAT with Nvidia which highlighted problems with AMD framepacing?? AMD has not decided to cut them off,for that negative PR??

Polaris seems to be confirmed to be a 232mm2 die. Compare that to AMD Pitcairn which was 212mm2 and in the HD7870. Barts XT was around 255mm2 and in the HD6870.

It seems HardOCP is trying to pump up the performance of Polaris 10 so they can paint it as a fail.

Anybody who applies any level of commonsense would see this is a more mainstream part.

The last Chinese leak which detailed performance said it was around R9 390X level.

Edit!!

If you look at the last mainstream parts:
1.)The HD6870 was around 10% slower than an HD5870
2.)The HD7870 was around 10% faster than an HD6970

If a Polaris 10 is around 10% slower than a Fury X at 1080P,it would be around R9 390X level:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080/images/perfrel_1920_1080.png

Yeah, AMD handled that whole FCat thing really well, with maturity and dignity.

they did cut out kitGuru (I think it was) for trash talking AMD in much the same way Kyle at HardOCP just did.

They don't mind people being critical as long as its constructive, its people who trash talk that they want nothing to do with.

surly anyone of reasonable mind understands that. which is why i don't think Kyle or that other bloke from KitGuru is, the guy from Kitguru went on to youtube, a very bizarre and cringe worthy performance.

Anyone know where it is?

 

[D.P.]

From the [H]OCP article:



He is saying AMD will offer lower prices to mitigate the gap. That is a blatant lie/twisting of fact since we all know that Polaris was never meant to compete in the high-end segments where the 1080 sits anyway, so any low prices announced will not be due to AMD's reaction to the 1070/1080.

According to AMD, Polaris is aimed at the low-mid segment so there should be no surprise that the prices will be lower.
Sadly,I suspect that [H]OCP will have suckered in many readers who actually will believe that AMD lowered prices because they couldn't beat the 1080.

I think you are misinterpreting what Kyle is saying. My understanding is Kyle believes that AMD wont get the performance they expected form Polaris, even considering that Polaris was never meant to go tete-a-tete with the 1080. E.g., maybe AMD envision Fury performance at 120W without stressing the chips much at all, but the samples back from engineering are more like 390 performance at 150w. I'm not saying that is the case, but if it was then what Kyle is saying is correct and still fits in with AMD's announced plan.


Something else to consider is there are rumours of GP106 release in July. It now looks like the Polaris NDA will lift on June 29th, so even if that is a hard launch its only about 1 month ahead of Nvidia for the mainstream cards. that is when things get difficult for AMD.

 

[AlamoX]

Look at my last post - looking at the previous AMD parts which had 200MM2 to 250MM2 GPUs,the R9 390X level performance would be consistent and that is what we heard from one or two of the leaks. I fully expected it to have R9 390 to Fury level performance months ago.

This is why I don't expect miracles with Polaris 10 - I expect it will be a relatively cheap to make part which AMD can grow marketshare with especially at the mainstream level of the market and also for OEMs.

polaris success will be the price point, if they are even a little bit greedy, it will turn into a failed product, but if they can bite their arm for a while longer and deliver a great price they might even take ppl away from the 1070 and market share, afterward they can charge better margins for vega.

 

[Jono8]

Polaris 10 rumours low to mid range sorry, not just low end. I'm looking for upper mid range so what ever sits around the 290/390 to Fury space with the intention of running 1440P max Ultra settings at 100FPS or above

My 290X manages average 60FPS at those settings in most games but it dips to often and is affecting my games

Cool and quiet is another goal, my 290X is AIO cooled and I want the AIO out of my system, VR doesnt interest me at the moment

All that for max budget of £350 please, maybe I'm dreaming

The 1070 is coming out at ~ 980Ti level performance and will likely start at under £350 for custom versions, so no you are not dreaming. I bet you will be able to get a decent enough custom cooled one for around £350 at launch.

If Polaris 10 is only between 390x and Fury pro performance and is anywhere near £350 it will be hilarious (ly bad for AMD).

The top Polaris 10 chip is going to have to be £250 tops.

 

[D.P.]

Considering Nvidia only launched 1 chip which will be the 1080-1070-and it seems the 1060 as well (bad yields yeah), and AMD launching two chips i don't see any problems with them coming a few weeks later.
Many people see the events as "Nvidia was months ahead of AMD" but in fact they only did a paper launch 3 weeks prior, and if AMD make a hard launch at E3, they are just about 2 weeks behind the Pascal.

GP106 is rumoured for July, very weak rumours mind.

 

[humbug]

Problem is AMD doesn't seem to know when silence serves them well - to often they are silent when they need to say something or say something when they um should have stayed silent :S

Right now though they need a GPU that is competitive with the 1070 - even if it was a little slower but broadly competitive, that is cost effective to both themselves (for profit) and to the customer that can blunt the 1080 sales as well as 1070 and shouting from the rooftops. Having the fastest card right now doesn't necessarily help AMD but having something that can run all the latest games at ultra settings 60fps and at a (more) reasonable cost to the consumer would be a big win.

Oh i agree completely, they really don't know when to speak and when to shut up.

And yes, i think i said this before, the bulk of GPU ownership is the GTX 970 / R9 390, if they don't have a product relevant to those people, IE significant performance hike for about the same money, AMD will lose that 'the bulk of GPU ownership' entirely.

That would not be a good place for AMD to be in

 

[melmac]

On the subject of the HardOCP article, it does seem to be a bit sour grapes, but saying that some of what he says has been rumoured elsewhere, so maybe there is something to some of it.

On Polaris being low end, well if it is only 390/x performance then I suppose it is, of course this is going from the perspective of all the guys saying that a certain NVidia 1080 is a mid range card. whereas if you think that these people are just trash talking NVidia, then a 390/x performing Polaris 10 would in fact be midrange with the high end going to the FuryX/980ti and probably 1070, with the 1080 being another 20/30% ahead.

But if you insist that the 1080 is midrange than Polaris 10 is low end.

Disclaimer: This comment will not be popular, I realise that, and it is not my intention to take this thread about Polaris off track by mentioning the 1080.

Why would you post be unpopular? 1080 is a mid range card, built off a mid range chip. From all the info that we have at the moment, Polaris 10 is aimed at the mainstream market. I would class this as a low end card.

But, we shall see how they price it, if they see that Nvidia can sell their mid range at a high end price and the Polaris 10 is faster than the 390x, then AMD might follow suit and price their low end cards the same as their current mid range cards.