AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

[Orangey]

It's expensive to tape out & manufacture new chips to cover the entire range these days.

Maybe if there's an upswing in the financials they will consider it next time. Or who knows EUV might finally come online.

 

[bru]

All bets are off atm. I still don't think we will see a top-to-bottom new range. I think there will have to be at least one or two rebrands in there. Biggish Polaris might make 3 cards and tiny Polaris 2, but in theory there is a large gap between them.

AMD did say (in the Forbes interview) that "some of their cards were getting old and needed replacing", but they didn't say /all/ of them did.

I'm not sure if Fiji with it's HBM1 (not used for anything else) will be rebranded, or if the 390 will have a final outing.

I doubt that Fiji with its HBM1 will make it to the rebrand list, as it is too big a chip and consequently expensive to make, but the 380/x Tonga chip is the next newest one and I wouldn't be surprised if that might make a appearance.

 

[flopper]

I doubt that Fiji with its HBM1 will make it to the rebrand list, as it is too big a chip and consequently expensive to make, but the 380/x Tonga chip is the next newest one and I wouldn't be surprised if that might make a appearance.

well they really just need 4 cards, one for 4k, one for 1440p and one for 1080p and one low end card. Its likely to be a Polaris replacement in each segment as HDR screens in each resolution is coming out. so for HDR and 144hz and such Polaris is there due to the DP 1.3 spec.

 

[FoxEye]

well they really just need 4 cards, one for 4k, one for 1440p and one for 1080p and one low end card. Its likely to be a Polaris replacement in each segment as HDR screens in each resolution is coming out. so for HDR and 144hz and such Polaris is there due to the DP 1.3 spec.

Flopper, it's about hitting price points as much as hitting performance levels. Four cards as you said could hit four common performance targets, but you'll have massive price jumps between each card.

It would be like having only the 980ti, 970, 960 and 950.

£500, £300, £180, £130

It could work I suppose. The vanilla 980 wasn't a very popular card after the ti landed, as far as I can make out.

But it also depends on being able to make a top-tier £500 card, disable parts of it, sell it at £300 and still make a profit.

Otherwise if you have £500, £400, £180, £130 you've got too big a gap in between. All your competition has to do is release a good card at £300 and you lose a lot of customers.

So as said, it's not just about performance. You /have/ to hit the best price points too.

 

[Mtom]

I doubt that Fiji with its HBM1 will make it to the rebrand list, as it is too big a chip and consequently expensive to make, but the 380/x Tonga chip is the next newest one and I wouldn't be surprised if that might make a appearance.

I agree on the fact that if they rename anything it could be Tonga converted to 14nm and sold as a lower range card.

Or they really just bringing 2 chips now, and the big one later.

BTW: Next Generation AMD Polaris GPUs Enter Testing Phase – Ellesmere, Baffin and Greenland (Vega 10) Spotted in HWiNFO Changelog

 

[flopper]

Flopper, it's about hitting price points as much as hitting performance levels. Four cards as you said could hit four common performance targets, but you'll have massive price jumps between each card.

It would be like having only the 980ti, 970, 960 and 950.

£500, £300, £180, £130

It could work I suppose. The vanilla 980 wasn't a very popular card after the ti landed, as far as I can make out.

But it also depends on being able to make a top-tier £500 card, disable parts of it, sell it at £300 and still make a profit.

Otherwise if you have £500, £400, £180, £130 you've got too big a gap in between. All your competition has to do is release a good card at £300 and you lose a lot of customers.

So as said, it's not just about performance. You /have/ to hit the best price points too.

you saw the presentation with fury how they target display resolution with their cards. driving these new HDR screens will be the target and how many cards they add to the mix to cover their price and performance are unknown as we have a full die shrink and redesign and if the cards perform differently than whats been the last few years they might change the way the pricepoints and cards are placed. like the Titan did the Halo version cost arm and leg without any benefit except ownership like Apple done.

Protip to AMD, make the card desireable in that way and your good to go guys.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

People are forgetting one thing though - if the higher end SKUs have HBM2,it will be easier to have cut down versions on the chips simply by having different numbers of HBM2 chips.
IIRC, almost the entirety of the memory controller is part of the actual RAM stack.

 

[FoxEye]

People are forgetting one thing though - if the higher end SKUs have HBM2,it will be easier to have cut down versions on the chips simply by having different numbers of HBM2 chips.
IIRC, almost the entirety of the memory controller is part of the actual RAM stack.

Whilst it might be "easy", it might not be profitable.

Essentially you could make every SKU from your biggest top-tier GPU, right down to the £50 SKUs. But you'd (probably) lose money doing so.

Historically most GPUs have made 2 SKUs each. Esp at the higher end.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Whilst it might be "easy", it might not be profitable.

Essentially you could make every SKU from your biggest top-tier GPU, right down to the £50 SKUs. But you'd (probably) lose money doing so.

Historically most GPUs have made 2 SKUs each. Esp at the higher end.

With only 2 new chips coming i think the one used for the high to mid will feature hbm 2 and the low will be gddr5. So we could see 3-4 hbm2 variants and 3-4 gddr5 chips.

 

[FoxEye]

With only 2 new chips coming i think the one used for the high to mid will feature hbm 2 and the low will be gddr5. So we could see 3-4 hbm2 variants and 3-4 gddr5 chips.

But when has a high-end GPU made 4 SKUs? I can't think of any examples.

Fiji made 3 cards, but before that 2 cards from one chip was the norm. Tahiti was 2 to start with then they introduced Tahiti lite some years later. Hawaii/Grenada was 2. Pitcairne was 2. Tonga was until recently was a single card in each generation.

Expecting two GPUs to fill the entire range is not something we've ever seen before, so I'm curious why people are making these predictions with such conviction it could be true?

 

[bru]

But when has a high-end GPU made 4 SKUs? I can't think of any examples.

Short memory then.

Tahiti.

7870XT
7950
7950 boost
7970
7970 GHz Ed.
7990

That's 6 GPU's right there. ( the 7950 and 7950 boost might not have sold along side each other I cannot remember, so it might only be 5 GPU's)

NVidia GK104

660 OEM
660Ti
670
680
690

That's 5 GPU's.

 

[TheRealDeal]

But when has a high-end GPU made 4 SKUs? I can't think of any examples.

Fiji made 3 cards, but before that 2 cards from one chip was the norm. Tahiti was 2 to start with then they introduced Tahiti lite some years later. Hawaii/Grenada was 2. Pitcairne was 2. Tonga was until recently was a single card in each generation.

Expecting two GPUs to fill the entire range is not something we've ever seen before, so I'm curious why people are making these predictions with such conviction it could be true?

I did say 3 to 4. The 7970/7950 along with a 7870 variant that also used Tahiti were all in the same family. With only 2 chips completing a top to bottom line up it's almost certain that 3-4 different variants will be out.

 

[FoxEye]

Short memory then.

Tahiti.

7870XT
7950
7950 boost
7970
7970 GHz Ed.
7990

That's 6 GPU's right there. ( the 7950 and 7950 boost might not have sold along side each other I cannot remember, so it might only be 5 GPU's)

NVidia GK104

660 OEM
660Ti
670
680
690

That's 5 GPU's.

That's a bit pedantic. Like I said, the 7870XT came years later, not on release.

The "boost" and "ghz editions" were also not on release, but were more like the "rev2" editions, and kept the same price points.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on release there was only the 7950 and the 7970. And the "boost"/"ghz" /replaced/ those cards rather than sitting alongside them, at a later date.

So I don't think that's the same at all.

 

[TheRealDeal]

That's a bit pedantic. Like I said, the 7870 came years later, not on release.

The "boost" and "ghz editions" were also not on release, but we're more like the "rev2" editions, and kept the same price points.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on release there was only the 7950 and the 7970. And the "boost"/"ghz" /replaced/ those cards rather than sitting alongside them, at a later date.

So I don't think that's the same at all.

It does however show that it can be done.

 

[bru]

That's a bit pedantic. Like I said, the 7870XT came years later, not on release.

The "boost" and "ghz editions" were also not on release, but were more like the "rev2" editions, and kept the same price points.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on release there was only the 7950 and the 7970. And the "boost"/"ghz" /replaced/ those cards rather than sitting alongside them, at a later date.

So I don't think that's the same at all.

Well if AMD ever release the twin Fiji card that will be 4 as well.

The 7970 and 7970 GHz did indeed sell along side each other, as I said not sure about the 7950 and boost variants though.

 

[fs123]

I wonder where the Fury X2 will fit into all this. It's still to be released and we are talking about Polaris in 5 months.

 

[FoxEye]

Well if AMD ever release the twin Fiji card that will be 4 as well.

Over a year later than Fiji launched tho...

The 7970 and 7970 GHz did indeed sell along side each other, as I said not sure about the 7950 and boost variants though.

In as much as there was still stock in the channel of the non-ghz editions when the ghz editions were released.

After a time only the the ghz editions could be bought. The "rev 1" cards were phased out.

And again, they didn't launch together.

I'll eat my words if AMD makes two GPUs into 8 cards /on release/, and not years later.

I'm pretty sure they won't.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Over a year later than Fiji launched tho...



In as much as there was still stock in the channel of the non-ghz editions when the ghz editions were released.

After a time only the the ghz editions could be bought. The "rev 1" cards were phased out.

And again, they didn't launch together.

I'll eat my words if AMD makes two GPUs into 8 cards /on release/, and not years later.

I'm pretty sure they won't.

It might not be on release but from top to bottom i think they need around 6 to fill in the price points. 4 will not cut it.

 

[FoxEye]

It might not be on release but from top to bottom i think they need around 6 to fill in the price points. 4 will not cut it.

I agree with this, just I think there will be a couple rebrands in there alongside probably 4 new cards from the 2 new GPUs.

For one, I don't think the Tiny Polaris GPU will be worth making into more than 2 cards.

There is however some speculation that Tiny Polaris might feature in multi-die cards on an interposer. People more clued up than me seem to think it's a very unlikely scenario, however.

 

[Mauller]

There is however some speculation that Tiny Polaris might feature in multi-die cards on an interposer. People more clued up than me seem to think it's a very unlikely scenario, however.

I think that would be unlikely, if you were going to put two together on an interposer then you might as well just design a bigger single core. The whole idea of the interposer is to bring the Far-Memory nearer to the gpu and to allow the high density of traces required for HBM to work.