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**AMD Radeon 390X Graphics Card WCE**

They pulled the Gold tickets from Raptr rewards as well, plus you can only have like 2 rewards per email account it seems. I got thousands of points sat doing nada now, oh well.

Wonder if we are going to get new Radeon Rewards with the 390X etc? hope they revamp the game line up again, the current one looks tired.
 
Article is bogus for many reasons, could the 390x have 8GB or an 8GB version, very possible I've said as much for a long time. But could it happen how this article says, no, it's impossible, Faud is an idiot and anyone believing this has a basic lack of knowledge or logical thinking.

It's this simple, a card will take at least 12 months to make, newer architectures/bigger new cards generally take a lot longer with the derivatives (same architecture but different shader/rop/bus counts) being quicker but still taking a decent length of time to design, lay out, tape out and get to market, mostly concurrent work but it takes time regardless.

You can not, with absolute certainty, go 2-3 months from launch and double the memory bus size... this is a literal impossibility. The article is twaddle because it's proposing something that is literally impossible. You can't take a core designed for four external connections to memory chips and just add four more without redesigning the entire chip, relaying the chip out on a transistor by transistor basis, re-taping it out, etc. This would add die size and at minimum a 12 month delay for a huge cost. This is NOT possible.

What is possible is it was always going to be an 8GB chip with 8 memory connections, what is also possible is the wait till summer is because that is when 2GB stacks will be available, letting them offer 4/8GB versions both using 4 memory stacks, just different density stacks.

On a more sensible note, 6 stacks would cost a lot less than 8, give you 6GB at a lower cost to the user yet adding 50% more memory for 4k users which will be more than enough in 99% of games for the next few years.

There are many possible specs for the 390x, what is impossible is what Faud is pushing in this article, that because Nvidia has semi announced a 12GB card that AMD at the last second reworked the card to completely change it.
 
Kaapstad said:
Titan X about 10% faster !!!

HBM is very fast yes but once the memory is already fast enough making it go even faster will not give any more performance as it still has to wait for the GPU core which will be the bottleneck.

Titan X v 390X will come down to which has got the fastest GPU core and that is anyones guess.:)
Click to expand...

Not true for power reasons, if you had a 300W Titan X with 12GB gddr5 and one with 8GB HBM, there would be likely around the 30-50W extra power available for the core on the HBM model. So the core could have a higher default clock, a much higher boost clock AND it would have the bandwidth required to feed the core running faster.

HBM's advantage isn't the raw bandwidth, it's the power saving it offers, which can then be used for core clock speeds.

Will the 390x have more room for power usage for the core compared to Titan X because of HBM, absolutely, will it be faster... depends on die size, actual performance, architecture improvements and how much money both dumped into another 28nm design. Effectively everything is somewhat compromised at this point. THe cards being released in the past year, likely including the 290x, were not what Nvidia or AMD had planned for 3 years ago. When you plan an architecture for the next node you can plan to double transistor count, some hardware feature that just simply cost too much die space on 28nm might have made sense at 20/14nm, so was included in the next architecture. When you try and move back up to 28nm with an architecture designed for a lower node, you make compromises.


HBM will allow any individual core to be noticeably faster than the same core equipped with GDDR5, the 390x will be significantly faster with HBM than had it used GDDR5.... but that doesn't translate to it being a brilliant core automatically. Depends on many more things.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Not true for power reasons, if you had a 300W Titan X with 12GB gddr5 and one with 8GB HBM, there would be likely around the 30-50W extra power available for the core on the HBM model. So the core could have a higher default clock, a much higher boost clock AND it would have the bandwidth required to feed the core running faster.

HBM's advantage isn't the raw bandwidth, it's the power saving it offers, which can then be used for core clock speeds.

Will the 390x have more room for power usage for the core compared to Titan X because of HBM, absolutely, will it be faster... depends on die size, actual performance, architecture improvements and how much money both dumped into another 28nm design. Effectively everything is somewhat compromised at this point. THe cards being released in the past year, likely including the 290x, were not what Nvidia or AMD had planned for 3 years ago. When you plan an architecture for the next node you can plan to double transistor count, some hardware feature that just simply cost too much die space on 28nm might have made sense at 20/14nm, so was included in the next architecture. When you try and move back up to 28nm with an architecture designed for a lower node, you make compromises.


HBM will allow any individual core to be noticeably faster than the same core equipped with GDDR5, the 390x will be significantly faster with HBM than had it used GDDR5.... but that doesn't translate to it being a brilliant core automatically. Depends on many more things.
Click to expand...

Stick your neck out and predict the performance of the 390X then.:D
 
drunkenmaster said:
Article is bogus for many reasons, could the 390x have 8GB or an 8GB version, very possible I've said as much for a long time. But could it happen how this article says, no, it's impossible, Faud is an idiot and anyone believing this has a basic lack of knowledge or logical thinking.

It's this simple, a card will take at least 12 months to make, newer architectures/bigger new cards generally take a lot longer with the derivatives (same architecture but different shader/rop/bus counts) being quicker but still taking a decent length of time to design, lay out, tape out and get to market, mostly concurrent work but it takes time regardless.

You can not, with absolute certainty, go 2-3 months from launch and double the memory bus size... this is a literal impossibility. The article is twaddle because it's proposing something that is literally impossible. You can't take a core designed for four external connections to memory chips and just add four more without redesigning the entire chip, relaying the chip out on a transistor by transistor basis, re-taping it out, etc. This would add die size and at minimum a 12 month delay for a huge cost. This is NOT possible.

What is possible is it was always going to be an 8GB chip with 8 memory connections, what is also possible is the wait till summer is because that is when 2GB stacks will be available, letting them offer 4/8GB versions both using 4 memory stacks, just different density stacks.

On a more sensible note, 6 stacks would cost a lot less than 8, give you 6GB at a lower cost to the user yet adding 50% more memory for 4k users which will be more than enough in 99% of games for the next few years.

There are many possible specs for the 390x, what is impossible is what Faud is pushing in this article, that because Nvidia has semi announced a 12GB card that AMD at the last second reworked the card to completely change it.
Click to expand...

So the Fud article is right then lol.

Two separate designs and AMD have decided to go with the 8gb version.:D
 
Thing that worries me though is if they save power on the HBM modules and reroute the saved power into making the core faster, well... the 290 was hot enough, i dread to think what kind of heat they can produce with more power available, which would definitely mean something like that horrendous AIO they bolt on that looks so super tacky.

Infact it would probably be so hot other components nearby would probably start failing due to being in proximity of such heat haha
 
bru said:
The bit of the article that does it for me is this bit.




So basically they decided to make this change 9 days ago, but they still reckon they could be here by June. Doesn't it physically take longer than that to bake the chips ?

You cannot just decide to add four more chips, not without completely redoing the memory traces on the interposer, let alone the GPU with the memory controller.
Click to expand...

You forget that no one knows anything about anything, everything is pure guess work upto and including this point.

They haven't suddenly changed the Interpose, no one but AMD knows what configuration the Interpose was and is, everything is pure speculation.
 
Kaapstad said:
So the Fud article is right then lol.

Two separate designs and AMD have decided to go with the 8gb version.:D
Click to expand...

No, the article isn't right, it will never be right regardless of what the 390x comes with.

Firstly there won't be two separate designs, that is much of the point. YOu don't spend millions, 10mil + these days just to tape out a design, and many more 10's of millions on the design stages to have two almost identical chips. It will either always have been designed for 8 memory stacks, or always been designed for 4 stacks.

Faud's article isn't that it has 8GB, it's specific in how and why AMD moved to an 8GB version and it's complete nonsense.

Being that Faud is a useless idiot and usually posts whatever nonsense gets sent to him I would suspect he's just doing another clickbait article to get page views or he's intentionally trying to raise expectations of an 8GB card so he can complain and users will complain when it has less.

What he absolutely does not have is a legitimate source who told him AMD at the last second reworked the design and they just added 4 more stacks, it is quite literally impossible. What he could have is a bogus source telling him anything and being the idiot he is he posts it because he's too dumb to understand why it's impossible. He, along with wccrap and several of the other worst tech sites will repost anything, they don't have accuracy, general computing knowledge or much of anything, they get stories/press releases e-mailed to them and they post them as if it's definitely true.
 
drunkenmaster said:
No, the article isn't right, it will never be right regardless of what the 390x comes with.

Firstly there won't be two separate designs, that is much of the point. YOu don't spend millions, 10mil + these days just to tape out a design, and many more 10's of millions on the design stages to have two almost identical chips. It will either always have been designed for 8 memory stacks, or always been designed for 4 stacks.

Faud's article isn't that it has 8GB, it's specific in how and why AMD moved to an 8GB version and it's complete nonsense.

Being that Faud is a useless idiot and usually posts whatever nonsense gets sent to him I would suspect he's just doing another clickbait article to get page views or he's intentionally trying to raise expectations of an 8GB card so he can complain and users will complain when it has less.

What he absolutely does not have is a legitimate source who told him AMD at the last second reworked the design and they just added 4 more stacks, it is quite literally impossible. What he could have is a bogus source telling him anything and being the idiot he is he posts it because he's too dumb to understand why it's impossible. He, along with wccrap and several of the other worst tech sites will repost anything, they don't have accuracy, general computing knowledge or much of anything, they get stories/press releases e-mailed to them and they post them as if it's definitely true.
Click to expand...

This and read me above.
 
drunkenmaster said:
No, the article isn't right, it will never be right regardless of what the 390x comes with.

Firstly there won't be two separate designs, that is much of the point. YOu don't spend millions, 10mil + these days just to tape out a design, and many more 10's of millions on the design stages to have two almost identical chips. It will either always have been designed for 8 memory stacks, or always been designed for 4 stacks.

Faud's article isn't that it has 8GB, it's specific in how and why AMD moved to an 8GB version and it's complete nonsense.

Being that Faud is a useless idiot and usually posts whatever nonsense gets sent to him I would suspect he's just doing another clickbait article to get page views or he's intentionally trying to raise expectations of an 8GB card so he can complain and users will complain when it has less.

What he absolutely does not have is a legitimate source who told him AMD at the last second reworked the design and they just added 4 more stacks, it is quite literally impossible. What he could have is a bogus source telling him anything and being the idiot he is he posts it because he's too dumb to understand why it's impossible. He, along with wccrap and several of the other worst tech sites will repost anything, they don't have accuracy, general computing knowledge or much of anything, they get stories/press releases e-mailed to them and they post them as if it's definitely true.
Click to expand...

I think I believe your previous post where you contradict yourself and basically say it is possible.:)
 
If we are to believe that AMD changed the configuration then we are to take the speculation of its configuration as 4GB as a fact.

It is not a fact, it was pure speculation, speculation that may have been right just as much as it may have been wrong.

If its wrong it may always have been 8GB, if its right it may have always been and still is 4GB.

4 or 8, no one but AMD knows, there are no facts. there never have been.
 
Worst part is, we probably got a month or more before we have any solid facts, so we got all that time+ ahead of us with just this sort of random speculation ongoing lol
 
IF they are doing a 8GIG card they will get quite a few which will have defects and come as 6 or 4GIG cards just like the 290x and the 290.
 
Humbug, how can you agree with DM but disagree with me, when we are both saying the same thing.

I said the article was nonsense, as you cannot suddenly change from a 4 chip design to an 8 chip design since the Titan X announcement. DM says the same thing.
 
Ayahuasca said:
He has a tendency to just agree with DM although he probably doesn't even understand what he's wrote.
Click to expand...

I do feel that is doing humbug a disservice, I personally have many good discussions with him, he comes across as an intelligent person who is good to debate with most of the time.
 
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