AMD Radeon R9 290X with Hawaii GPU pictured, has 512-bit 4GB Memory

Silent_Scone · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:10

Mantles benefit will depend entirely on it's optimisation for the engine it's under. I'm predicting perhaps 10 to 15 fps maybe - but also you'll probably find it's less about the numbers and more about the fluency.

flopper · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:13

Steampunk said:
You think AMD and DICE spent millions and years on Mantle, and they are going to get 1 FPS benefit?

hum, Intel spent way way way more on the graphics development.
didnt pan out. dont mean same thing happens here.
so no they wouldnt spend money to develop 1fps I would assume a 30% or so as that would be a good number but we dont know yet.
so if today its 70fps then with Mantle it be 91.
Having a lower end card matching the high end.

DICE Johan andersson is in the forefront with this and having the technical guy with the engine applying what he always wanted to do for the GCN arch, well I do expect it to be good there.

ICDP · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:15

If you stick to ~10%-15% as a result of Mantle then anything over is a bonus.

Kaapstad · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:29

ICDP said:
If you stick to ~10%-15% as a result of Mantle then anything over is a bonus.

I suspect Mantle will disappoint a lot of people and will give around 5% improvement.

I am an old f&*t and in my time I have seen so many so called tech breakthroughs promising all sorts of things, but when it comes to the crunch they produce very little.

ICDP · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:30

no_1_dave said:
We are not talking about draining "huge amounts of CPU power" to deal with DX overhead.
Most games only use about 20% of my CPU and that is running the game + Steam + Chrome + everything else + DX overhead.
Removing this DX overhead is going to make almost no impact to actual in game FPS performance. maybe 61fps instead of 60fps.

Time will tell but if you expect mantle to make a bigger difference then 1 or 2 fps I think you'll be wrong. It'll be about the same benefit you'd get from closing the internet or any other standard background app. DX overhead is hardly anything for any modern system to deal with.

LOL, so AMD, DICE and other yet to be revealed developers spend years working on Mantle when they just needed to turn off their anti virus software. On top of that they can expect a performance increase of 1.66%, or within the standard margin of error.

I don't know what performance Mantle will bring but it's going to be higher than 1.66%.

ICDP · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:32

Kaapstad said:
I suspect Mantle will disappoint a lot of people and will give around 5% improvement.

I am an old f&*t and in my time I have seen so many so called tech breakthroughs promising all sorts of things, but when it comes to the crunch they produce very little.

Would you spend years developing something that would yield such little benefit. I see some claim 30% which I would say is extreme optimism, but only 5% is right on the pessimistic end of the scale. It would be pointless and AMD, Dice and others involved would be a laughing stock.

Jono8 · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:34

Kaapstad said:
I suspect Mantle will disappoint a lot of people and will give around 5% improvement.

I am an old f&*t and in my time I have seen so many so called tech breakthroughs promising all sorts of things, but when it comes to the crunch they produce very little.

Indeed. I have read so much **** about how new software, API's , new version of direct x will increase performance, but the result has always been dissapointing.

I am not going to properly comment on Mantle until it is released as we just dont know what it will do yet.

I am keeping firmly pessimistic about it though.

Kaapstad · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:39

ICDP said:
Would you spend years developing something that would yield such little benefit. I see some claim 30% which I would say is extreme optimism, but only 5% is right on the pessimistic end of the scale. It would be pointless and AMD, Dice and others involved would be a laughing stock.

I have seen the same thing happen in everything from Hi Fi to motorbikes, the manufacturers make huge claims on isolated stats but the real world performance increase is very small.

Zeed · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:39

290X door hanger edition LOL

Gregster · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:40

PCper, who have been pretty spot on have said that Mantle could give a performance increase between 10 and 20 percent. That is quite substantial if it is the top end and seeing something that gets 60 fps suddenly getting 72 fps is a nice increase and free for those on the 7 series.

Kaapstad · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:41

Lord_ZED said:
290X door hanger edition LOL

I love the way they use GPU Tweak as a positive selling point on the box.: :eek:

ICDP · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:42

Gregster said:
PCper, who have been pretty spot on have said that Mantle could give a performance increase between 10 and 20 percent. That is quite substantial if it is the top end and seeing something that gets 60 fps suddenly getting 72 fps is a nice increase and free for those on the 7 series.

I'm thinking this kind of increase would be the minimum that would make it worthwhile. That's why I'm going with that as a figure. The optimistic 30% guys need to be realistic, on the other hand only 5% or less would be pointless.

ICDP · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:45

Kaapstad said:
I love the way they use GPU Tweak as a positive selling point on the box.:

Yeah, all AIBs do this for their cards. I suppose it takes up a bit more of the empty space on the box

Kaapstad · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:49

ICDP said:
Yeah, all AIBs do this for their cards. I suppose it takes up a bit more of the empty space on the box

I am not really in a good position to comment on GPU Tweak as I have a few Asus cards.

Gregster · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:51

I have played with GPU tweak for a total of under 2 mins. Hated it, removed it, installed Precision X.

I understand the Matrix requires it for volts though?

Kaapstad · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:51

ICDP said:
I'm thinking this kind of increase would be the minimum that would make it worthwhile. That's why I'm going with that as a figure. The optimistic 30% guys need to be realistic, on the other hand only 5% or less would be pointless.

Any gain is worth having as long as it's free.

It does not matter who's right as long as it is a gain.

Jono8 · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:53

ICDP said:
Yeah, all AIBs do this for their cards. I suppose it takes up a bit more of the empty space on the box

Though at least with MSI and EVGA they can do it with some confidence as Precision and Afterburner are actually decent

Kaapstad · 20 Oct 2013 at 10:54

Gregster said:
I have played with GPU tweak for a total of under 2 mins. Hated it, removed it, installed Precision X.

I understand the Matrix requires it for volts though?

I tried it the other day on my Asus Titan's but I hit a small problem.

I ran out of overclocking adjustment on GPU Tweak before my cards ran out of overclocking headroom lol. :eek:

IT Troll · 20 Oct 2013 at 11:11

Lord_ZED said:
290X door hanger edition LOL

The 290X would make a good door stop, not sure it really works as a hanger though.

Booner! · 20 Oct 2013 at 11:20

I would imagine that mantle is something which will get better with time? like all things, takes a while for people to realise potential and work with what's available. Any gain is good in my eyes, just like a small overclocks adding a few FPS or new drivers bumping fps by 5...always welcomed, so stay sceptical and let's see what this brings to PC gaming.

I have been hanging out for a new GPU and my fan just stopped working on my SLI setup, it's pushed me over the edge and I'll be getting one of these (any excuse!). Shame I missed the deposit reserve thingy, guess it will be late November to get my hands on this?