Yeah I think this is the worse generation especially in the mid range that I can remember.
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AMD RDNA3 unveiling event
- Thread starter CAT-THE-FIFTH
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Caporegime
Panicked.
Or they would have been forced to go back to RX 580 margins.
Caporegime
IMO the problem with AMD is they lack the drive that Nvidia have to win.
They don't really care that much for GPU marketshare, they make plenty of other products most of which are more profitable, so while it would be nice to take some of Nvidia's marketshare they will not bend over backwards to do it, if they stopped selling GPU's tomorrow it would make little difference to their overall revenues, but it would free up some silicon supply to feed the juggernaut that is their datacenter business.
Linus said AMD are a joke and don't matter, i suspect that feeling is not uncommon, especially among tech journalists.
That is a very very very steep and expensive hill to overcome.
They don't really care that much for GPU marketshare, they make plenty of other products most of which are more profitable, so while it would be nice to take some of Nvidia's marketshare they will not bend over backwards to do it, if they stopped selling GPU's tomorrow it would make little difference to their overall revenues, but it would free up some silicon supply to feed the juggernaut that is their datacenter business.
Linus said AMD are a joke and don't matter, i suspect that feeling is not uncommon, especially among tech journalists.
That is a very very very steep and expensive hill to overcome.
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We're in dire straits.
Nvidia sells GPUs as an afterthought of their datacenter business (both AI and streaming), AMD does it to pay for console and semi-custom R&D.
Basically nobody puts the consumer market as first priority...
Caporegime
I wish tech tubers would be more than a little milk-toast about Nvidia charging ever more, but they always get dazzled by software features and Jenson's leather jacket, i mean ffs.... some of them even said the 4070Ti was good value, they were comparing it to the 4080 and they felt they had to give Nvidia some brownie points because after daring to call Nvidia out on the 4080 12GB naming and them then also knocking $100 off the price.
Because if they aren't nice to Nvidia they may never be so accommodating ever again, like a beaten wife retorting he's a nice man really, last week he bought me a box of chocolates to apologies for fracturing my eye socket.
Yes i know AMD have been just as bad, but remember what Linus said, AMD are a joke, they don't matter.
Because if they aren't nice to Nvidia they may never be so accommodating ever again, like a beaten wife retorting he's a nice man really, last week he bought me a box of chocolates to apologies for fracturing my eye socket.
Yes i know AMD have been just as bad, but remember what Linus said, AMD are a joke, they don't matter.
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Associate
For me the biggest problem is not the lack of drive, it's the inability to realise their own place in the sector.
They release cards on par with Nvidia in price but lacking feature parity they accuse Nvidia of doing all these "bad for consumer actions" but are under the delusion that if they are only 90% as bad as Nvidia then that's ok.
Their absolute incompetence from scoring an open goal is unreal as well, they destroyed Intel with how they played the Ryzen CPUs they could easily destroy Nvidia if they played the same games with their GPUs.
I was so hyped for the 7900xtx you have no idea, this would have been the most expensive single component purchase of my life for a PC, and yet I now feel underwhelmed, the rumours around the 7800xt now make me feel this entire generation is just meh. I don't feel excitement at all. The Nitro+ had £100 knocked off it's price over the weekend just a month after it's release it's crazy.
I'm still keen on a 7900xtx but I will now be waiting until they are under £1000 and that's for the Nitro+ model, I refuse to pay over a grand for them.
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Caporegime
What features do Nvidia have that AMD don't?
Associate
Well less developed features is what I mean.
Using RT as the example, I don't care for it personally but if two cards are the same price, with the same performance in everything but out of the two cards one performs twice as well in RT then it's stupid not to buy the better model.
The problem is the 7900XTX and 4080 are the same price in my eyes it doesn't make sense to buy a 7900xtx at the same price as a 4080 (they are both terrible value)
Caporegime
I agree there is no reason to buy AMD over Nvidia, but you also hit on a mind set that a lot of people have, AMD must be cheaper by default, because they don't have feature parity, but even if they are cheaper they don't have feature parity.
So the only place being cheaper works is where people just want a GPU that can render the most frames at a given budget, and AMD's GPU's around the RX 6600 to RX 6750XT range are quite popular, they are certainly AMD's best selling GPU's, but the RTX 3060, a GPU where people don't buy it for RT, because you can't realistically use it, is vastly outselling the RX 6650XT which is both cheaper and significantly faster, Its a Ryzen 1600 vs a Core i5 7600K, it should work, that did, but it isn't, not by a very long way.
Now what?
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Caporegime
You know what... HUB reviewed the RTX 3050 and concluded you should buy it at $350, completely forgetting or ignoring the RX 6600XT at that time selling and in stock for $350 on that day, an RTX 3050 which is way slower than an RTX 3060 which in turn is slower than that RX 6600XT.
I mean ffs!
And yes, the RTX 3050 outsells the RX 6600XT by a huge margin.
I mean ffs!
And yes, the RTX 3050 outsells the RX 6600XT by a huge margin.
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Caporegime
I have a suspicion that AMD sell the same number of GPU's no matter what price they sell them at. That is not a problem that is their fault.
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Caporegime
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Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Aug 2009
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Then is stupid not to sell the current crop as low as possible (most likely at $500for a 7900xt is still profitable, or even lower!), gain market share and most likely make about the same amount of money in the long run. But is easy for them to not care, otherwise it they would have need to fight the scalpers (including retailers) and that's too much more them. Easy money is better, even if is less.
Anyway, the truth is... they do care about the GPU side of things, because is a market that can grow and bring future profits. Data center is growing, but no growth is infinite.
NVIDIA Announces Preliminary Financial Results for Second Quarter Fiscal 2023
NVIDIA today announced selected preliminary financial results for the second quarter ended July 31, 2022.
nvidianews.nvidia.com
Data Center -> 3.81 billion
Gaming - > 2.04 billion (down 44% Q/Q), that would mean this was around 3.64billion not that long ago if my math is right. Not that far from Data Center.
Data Center and Gaming are nVIDIA's biggest earners. They don't afford to ignore gaming, but they thought they could keep the same high revenues through margins instead of volume. Tough luck!
Associate
I agree if you're looking at the lower models, but we're not, not me specifically anyway, i'm looking at the 7900xtx which is capable of RT.
It's not that I think AMD needs to be cheaper, it has to be unless it's a equal fight. I will likely buy the first card either the 7900xtx Nitro X or a 4080 which drops to under £1000 first. Which brand doesn't bother. If anything for me personally Nvidia needs to be £100 cheaper than AMD... mostly because ill need to buy a new case too!
I will probably get pulled over by the GPU Police but as I posted elsewhere I doubt very much that AMD are able to build a 7900XT reference for $500 and make any money. It's just not designed to hit that price.
Caporegime
Then is stupid not to sell the current crop as low as possible (most likely at $500for a 7900xt is still profitable, or even lower!), gain market share and most likely make about the same amount of money in the long run. But is easy for them to not care, otherwise it they would have need to fight the scalpers (including retailers) and that's too much more them. Easy money is better, even if is less.
Anyway, the truth is... they do care about the GPU side of things, because is a market that can grow and bring future profits. Data center is growing, but no growth is infinite.
NVIDIA Announces Preliminary Financial Results for Second Quarter Fiscal 2023
NVIDIA today announced selected preliminary financial results for the second quarter ended July 31, 2022.
Data Center -> 3.81 billion
Gaming - > 2.04 billion (down 44% Q/Q), that would mean this was around 3.64billion not that long ago if my math is right. Not that far from Data Center.
Data Center and Gaming are nVIDIA's biggest earners. They don't afford to ignore gaming, but they thought they could keep the same high revenues through margins instead of volume. Tough luck!
RTX 3080 was $699, but they sold a huge number of them to crypto miners at over $1000, Hence the 44% revenue difference Q/Q.
Nvidia want to keep that gravy train going, that's why the 4080 is $1199, crypto miners aren't buying anymore, but the hope is we will.
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For AMD to sell 7900XT's for $499, this also means selling the 7900XTX for $699, the 7800XT for $399, the 7700XT for $299 and the 7600XT for $199...... they would have to see a huge shift in their marketshare, one that would actually hurt Nvidia significantly, or the only ones feeling the pain would be AMD.
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Caporegime
If you in a year you sell 5 million GPU's at $400 you're turning over $2 billion in that year for GPU sales, AMD's annual turnover is $26 billion.
Ok not bad... but that's not the end of it, what is the cost to AMD to get that in your hands for $400?
A Ryzen 7900X sells retail for $450, it does not have a PCB with dozens of components on it, it does not come with a high quality triple fan cooler, it does not come with a bunch of memory IC's, you can ship 10 of those for the space used by 1 GPU.
Can you see why before RDNA AMD effectively took themselves out of the GPU game?
There does come a point where the hard nosed business people decide its not working, stop trying.
Intel wound down their Intel Optane business, they are winding down the ARK business, its all done quietly but there is no long term strategy for Intel gaming GPU's, its too expensive, Intel don't have the money, they are also letting 30% of their staff go.
If tech tubers put even half as much energy in to willing AMD on, publicly, as they did Intel, and gave them even half as much of a pass on their problems as they did Intel...... AMD might feel confident in trying a little harder, in taking bigger risks.
Ok not bad... but that's not the end of it, what is the cost to AMD to get that in your hands for $400?
A Ryzen 7900X sells retail for $450, it does not have a PCB with dozens of components on it, it does not come with a high quality triple fan cooler, it does not come with a bunch of memory IC's, you can ship 10 of those for the space used by 1 GPU.
Can you see why before RDNA AMD effectively took themselves out of the GPU game?
There does come a point where the hard nosed business people decide its not working, stop trying.
Intel wound down their Intel Optane business, they are winding down the ARK business, its all done quietly but there is no long term strategy for Intel gaming GPU's, its too expensive, Intel don't have the money, they are also letting 30% of their staff go.
If tech tubers put even half as much energy in to willing AMD on, publicly, as they did Intel, and gave them even half as much of a pass on their problems as they did Intel...... AMD might feel confident in trying a little harder, in taking bigger risks.
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They still hung in there with cards like Vega which was mainly a compute card pulling double duty as a gaming card, it wasn't amazing but it had respectable enough performance. People seem to forget the company was on the edge of bankruptcy a few times in the last 10 or so years and most of the finances the company had were tied up in developing ryzen and its platform. That doesn't make it easy to compete with companies like intel and nvidia who had no such issues and were clawing in billions.
Caporegime
AMD complained, publicly, those were being sold at cost.
If that is true, you can't do that, that's how you make yourself bankrupt.
The ones that AMD liked were the RX 480, later re-branded the RX 580 and 590, they could sell those cheaply because they were cheap to make and people liked them, they sold a lot of them despite them being very basic cards, they just did the job people needed them to at a good price.
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