AMD VEGA confirmed for 2017 H1

[Dicehunter]

I hope this comes in at really stonking great performance with a damn good price so Nvidia will have to reply in kind and maybe start charging something a little bit more sane as I have a G-Sync monitor and no way am I giving that up

 

[JediFragger]

If AMD want to sell in numbers they won't be pricing any where near Titan for a single Gpu. I see what they are saying though as if Titan PX is still £1100 and Vega is as fast they would have every right to price around this area. They won't though as they need sales and more market share. It's still going to be expensive though if the 1080 is still priced where it is.

Remember, AMD no longer want to be seen as the 'budget option' though

FuryX prices are still up there!!!

 

[JediFragger]

By all accounts it is selling very well and pretty much every review said it was excellent value.

From what I've heard from a couple of etailers it's selling 'ok', not really setting the world on fire...

 

[beany_bot]

Yeah i don't understand waiting for Vega, as you can get that performance now from the 1070/80, why the hell would you wait another year for it lol.

Because I don't want to give me money to / support Nvidia.
The treatment of their customers whilst AMD are down has been abhorrent. Prices are obscene.

I more than likely won't buy Nvidia again. Not to mention gameworks...

 

[JediFragger]

Because I don't want to give me money to / support Nvidia.
The treatment of their customers whilst AMD are down has been abhorrent. Prices are obscene.

I more than likely won't buy Nvidia again. Not to mention gameworks...

I'll buy the best their is out at the time, AMD or nVidia I'm not fussed! Just so happens to have been nVidia for the past 18 months (previously 295x2, but.....Crossfire).

Been happy enough with them (when they're not trying to **** me with no lube on the pricing )

 

[SiDeards73]

By all accounts it is selling very well and pretty much every review said it was excellent value. So AMD appear to have pitched it well. Took a hit from the Brexit slump but that's local to the UK and independent of AMD choices.

Brexit played its part, but i still feel the cards were £20-£30 more expensive than they should have been, had the 480 been £30 cheaper than its current price and up against the 1060 it would be an absolute no brainer for most people.

What worries me the most with AMD architecture currently is Polaris was massively underwhelming, Fiji was massively underwhelming, Hawaii was strong but required a ton of power and thus was hot etc.

If Vega is an evolved version of any of those its going to have an issue in one way or another? If its a totally new product designed from the ground up then there is hope they can pull off something great, but i worry that they dont seem to learn from previous mistakes.

 

[JediFragger]

If its a totally new product designed from the ground up then there is hope they can pull off something great, but i worry that they dont seem to learn from previous mistakes.

I'm expecting Vega to be an evolved architecture for some strange reason, and Navi to be totally new. Don't know why, but maybe it;s something I've read a while back and it's nagging at me.

Hope I'm wrong though, we need it to be kickass!!

 

[Final8y]

Right, and hardly no one will buy it. As I have consistently said, hardly anyone sane will pay that kind of money for VEGA ~9 months after Titan XP offered that performance. Most people who were willing to drop a four figure sum on a graphics card will have already done so by that point. £50 or even £200 cheaper won't be good enough.

Yes thats right which means hardly anyone will be a buying a Titan XP 9 months later if the price does not drop either, so that would have to mean NV does not care that 9 months later no one is buying the Titan XP.

Im not denying that people would not rush to buy Titan XP performance at £600, that's obvious and not my point the point is if AMD gives Titan XP performance at £600 then NV will also be giving Titan XP performance at around £600 some form or another they are not going to allow AMD to clean up at that price sector.

So potentially this all over again.
Nvidia announces GTX 780 Ti and deep price cuts in response to AMD R9 barrage

Over the past month, AMD has restructured its entire product line with deep price cuts and a new GPU launch. The R9 280X and R9 290X (at $300 and $550 respectively) blew Nvidia’s price-performance ratio out of the water, with the GTX 770 stuck at $400 and the GTX 780 at $650. A response was inevitable, and this morning Nvidia let fly its own salvo. Beginning immediately, the GTX 770 takes a price cut down to $330, the GTX 780 drops to $500, and the upcoming GTX 780 Ti will launch on November 7 at $700.

What is the GTX 780 Ti, you ask? Great question. There are two possibilities. The first option is rather pedestrian — simply crank up the clocks on the GTX 780 and voila — you’ve got yourself a GTX 780 Ti. That accomplishes the first goal — create a faster GTX 780. Rumors, however, point to the idea that the GTX 780 Ti might be faster than Titan itself. The best way to make that happen is to bring some of the disabled cores back online and bring clock speeds up simultaneously.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...deep-price-cuts-in-response-to-amd-r9-barrage

 

[flopper]

Brexit played its part, but i still feel the cards were £20-£30 more expensive than they should have been, had the 480 been £30 cheaper than its current price and up against the 1060 it would be an absolute no brainer for most people.

What worries me the most with AMD architecture currently is Polaris was massively underwhelming, Fiji was massively underwhelming, Hawaii was strong but required a ton of power and thus was hot etc.

If Vega is an evolved version of any of those its going to have an issue in one way or another? If its a totally new product designed from the ground up then there is hope they can pull off something great, but i worry that they dont seem to learn from previous mistakes.

The design process are around 3 to 5 years on any given product.
However AMD hired and designed ZEN due to Bulldozer simply didnt scale.
I call that learning from their past.
The 400 series has a perfect price/performance ratio for 85% of the customer base so I call that learning from the past.

Everyone makes mistakes its part of the design process and cant be avoided fully no matter how how hard you try. What one can avoid is lying to you and selling you cards that isn't right like 3.5gb 970 and saying it is 4gb and why Nvidia lost the lawsuit. Its not ok when a company sell cards to Apple and they burn their computer knowing they would. Thats why Apple buy AMD cards as that did happen.

So who did learn from their mistakes, AMD or Nvidia?

People worry a lot but we have seen how AMD has done something new here, the design with ZEN and the rtg with the 400 and soon Vega are new ways which just indicate they changed both design and tactics and it as far I can tell have been hugely good for them.

I feel really confident about how AMD have learned from mistakes and are going for a new era of products. Cant judge the future based on the past as thats the fools errand.

 

[SiDeards73]

The design process are around 3 to 5 years on any given product.
However AMD hired and designed ZEN due to Bulldozer simply didnt scale.
I call that learning from their past.
The 400 series has a perfect price/performance ratio for 85% of the customer base so I call that learning from the past.

Everyone makes mistakes its part of the design process and cant be avoided fully no matter how how hard you try. What one can avoid is lying to you and selling you cards that isn't right like 3.5gb 970 and saying it is 4gb and why Nvidia lost the lawsuit. Its not ok when a company sell cards to Apple and they burn their computer knowing they would. Thats why Apple buy AMD cards as that did happen.

So who did learn from their mistakes, AMD or Nvidia?

People worry a lot but we have seen how AMD has done something new here, the design with ZEN and the rtg with the 400 and soon Vega are new ways which just indicate they changed both design and tactics and it as far I can tell have been hugely good for them.

I feel really confident about how AMD have learned from mistakes and are going for a new era of products. Cant judge the future based on the past as thats the fools errand.

Thats all well and good floppy but the Polaris is a let down, it suffered a bad rep from the start with the PCIE issue which has been addressed, its got a horrendous cooler on it again, which throttles its performance and it was simply priced too high, coinciding with the Brexit meant the card was way above the price bracket it should have been in.

I understand what AMD were trying to do, it was unfortunate for them that the Brexit came along and rained on their parade, if the card was cheaper it would have disrupted the market like it should have done, unfortunately its not disruptive at all, despite what AMD and AMD Fanboys will have you believe. Im an AMD fanboy but im also a realist and i realise that Polaris never hit all the points it was supposed to.

Again AMD dropped the ball with Polaris, this time on a few fronts, PCIE power issue, Bad reference cooler, over priced. Just one of those is enough to give a card a bad name.

Also i think the 480 was the 470 pushed to its limit, i think the 470 was supposed to be the main card but AMD somehow felt they needed the 480. Polaris as an architecture seems underwhelming also, sure its better than FIji, as you can actually OC Polaris and get meaningful results from doing so, but it just feels like a revamped Hawaii in regards to the heat and power issue again, when you look at Nvidia and see how much cooler and more efficient their cards are you start to wonder why AMD cant get near them? yes even though AMD carry the extra hardware onboard for DX12 etc that requires power, i still feel AMD cards lack the polish of Nvidia products.

What i am getting at is my expectations for Vega are not how fast its going to be, as i think it will be a decently performing card, but i expect it to come packaged with a horrendous reference cooler and i expect HBM again to be unclockable pretty much, and i expect the card to be priced much higher than is warranted (part of that will be HMB2 costs) will i still buy it? yep, i will probably buy 2 of them, i love AMD cards performance, i just dont like the rubbish they are saddled with. It also means i will have to wait for 3rd party cooled versions like Tri-X etc, but im happy to do that.

Vega will be decent but it will be again hindered by at minimum 1 thing from AMD, and more realistically 2 or 3.

 

[Gerard]

The design process are around 3 to 5 years on any given product.
However AMD hired and designed ZEN due to Bulldozer simply didnt scale.
I call that learning from their past.

It wasn't a matter of bulldozer not scaling, it was simply a much slower chip than the intel equivalents and the higher end versions of it guzzled a lot of power. The ones that went to 5ghz required specific motherboards with upgraded components because they were chewing through around 220 watts which is ridiculous for a cpu, especially one that can't even compete with cpu's running much slower in overall mhz.

Id hardly call them designing zen learning from their past, its been designed more out of necessity to actually be competitive on the cpu front. You talk like bulldozer was somehow a good cpu but ultimately it was lacking on just about every point compared to the intel counterparts. They needed something new, they've had to rely on iterations of bulldozer for quite some time and have been behind Intel on the cpu front since core 2 came into being. The only thing from their past was bringing in Jim Keller again to design a chip that hopefully won't be an over-hyped steaming pile.

 

[Baboonanza]

The HBM2 stopping overclocking is my main concern as I'd be watercooling it anyway. Hopefully they've uncoupled it somehow.

Beyond the fact that Vega uses HBM2 nobody really knows anything at this stage though. Any speculation is almost completely groundless which makes a 20 page thread somewhat pointless.

 

[Gerard]

The HBM2 stopping overclocking is my main concern as I'd be watercooling it anyway. Hopefully they've uncoupled it somehow.

Beyond the fact that Vega uses HBM2 nobody really knows anything at this stage though. Any speculation is almost completely groundless which makes a 20 page thread somewhat pointless.

There's been nothing to indicate that hbm stopped overclocking on the original fiji cards. If anything most people seem to think that the core was already close to its limits out of the box. 980ti was a surprise launch so it wouldn't be all that surprising if amd upped the stock clocks on the fiji range to make it more competitive with the ti.

 

[pooley]

And so the madness begins once again. I expect a couple hundred pages of no actual news, arguments about random nonsense, talking about Nvidia cards, fake leaks/rumours before it all goes mental early 2017 shortly before release and we all go nuts over some random chinese guy benchmarking it on a stream. Then it releases well over the price AMD announce, doesn't improve too much on price/performance and the hype dies after folks once again realise that their new hopes and dreams of AMD making a comeback or a card to destroy Nvidia's top-end Titan X was all but merely clouds in the sky.

Yeah... sounds about right.

Except the RX 480 ain't half bad, if you can get a decent one close to £200 like I did.

Nerd's are gonna nerd lolz

 

[Rezident]

I wish these would hurry up so there was a high-end card with a sane price. If AMD go out of business, we’re screwed, I’ll have to buy a console or something.

 

[TNA]

Yes thats right which means hardly anyone will be a buying a Titan XP 9 months later if the price does not drop either, so that would have to mean NV does not care that 9 months later no one is buying the Titan XP.

Im not denying that people would not rush to buy Titan XP performance at £600, that's obvious and not my point the point is if AMD gives Titan XP performance at £600 then NV will also be giving Titan XP performance at around £600 some form or another they are not going to allow AMD to clean up at that price sector.

So potentially this all over again.
Nvidia announces GTX 780 Ti and deep price cuts in response to AMD R9 barrage


http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...deep-price-cuts-in-response-to-amd-r9-barrage

Yes but how is this AMD's or even more importantly our concern? We want tech to move forward, meaning you get better performance for the same price or the same performance for cheaper. As AMD is unlikely to be able to provide the former ~9 months on, they need to do the latter, which ties in with my whole point

 

[LoadsaMoney]

I wish these would hurry up so there was a high-end card with a sane price. If AMD go out of business, we’re screwed, I’ll have to buy a console or something.

Get a Nvidia card.

 

[Jono8]

I wish these would hurry up so there was a high-end card with a sane price. If AMD go out of business, we’re screwed, I’ll have to buy a console or something.

To be honest, the xbox scorpio might make all our gpu's look like crap if it is indeed going to have 6+ Tflops of power. That is huge for a console.

Though if vega is as powerful as those leaked specs suggest and volta comes out next year offering huge gains over pascal, the difference would be reset again.

 

[TNA]

To be honest, the xbox scorpio might make all our gpu's look like crap if it is indeed going to have 6+ Tflops of power. That is huge for a console.

Though if vega is as powerful as those leaked specs suggest and volta comes out next year offering huge gains over pascal, the difference would be reset again.

Won't lie, I was thinking this also...

Could just sell up my computer, buy a nice 2017 Premium 4K HDR screen and get a Scorpio. But... Who wants to be stuck only playing with a controller??

Would also miss out things like Star Citizen which I already have purchased. Not that it cost me anything, after selling my AMD Omega ship package recently, I am in like £20 profit from that game

PC is just simply better. All my games in one place. Don't need to sell and re-buy etc for new console. More and more console only games are coming to PC also now, so I will stay with PC. Might get a Nintendo NX though

 

[Final8y]

Yes but how is this AMD's or even more importantly our concern? We want tech to move forward, meaning you get better performance for the same price or the same performance for cheaper. As AMD is unlikely to be able to provide the former ~9 months on, they need to do the latter, which ties in with my whole point

They dont need to do the latter if What they are competing with is also highly priced for the comparable performance, just because its late does not mean they have to come in at 40% less in price than what the competition is selling at the time for the same performance.
The 7970 was not cheap the 290x was not cheap, the FuryX was not cheap.