• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

AMD what you doing to fight off Alderlake?

Soldato
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Posts
9,315
Bet you didn't think you'd be saying that five years ago :eek:

When Lisa Su joined AMD and started reorganising, I could tell she was Doing Big Things. At that point, AMD was either going to go bust in the near future or they were going to go all in and pull rabbits out of hats. IIRC, I think I read some article on Semi-Accurate talking about her future plans, her building a war chest to go after Intel and Nvidia, and those first couple of years seem to indicate that she was doing exactly that. Intel has been pretty moribund since that time, so I'm not at all surprised they've been surpassed. Intel took their eye off the ball, AMD has innovated like never before.

This is why I believe AMD is not fussed about Alderlake, because they've jumped those fences and run into the distance a long time ago. AL gives Intel a little breathing room on the desktop, it does nothing for Intel in the HEDT or server space, and has no way forwards. It's a nothing burger in the big scheme of where the industry is going and the problems it has to overcome to get there (many of which AMD has already solved, built into products, and is selling left, right and centre).

Intel has to start pulling rabbits, not give us this nonsense of shaving dies and cranking up the power to silly levels and then sticking some little cores on the side to claim efficiency. That's all just trying to put a square peg in a round hole while marketing like crazy to convince us that's a good thing.
 
Soldato
Joined
26 Sep 2010
Posts
7,152
Location
Stoke-on-Trent
Why would AMD drop prices when an Alder Lake system is more expensive than a Ryzen 5000 system?

When DDR5 is more plentiful and half-decent and Intel launch their budget B and H boards - i.e. when you can build a 12600K system for the same price as a Ryzen 5600X system and demolish it - AMD will reduce prices. And that will also give a buffer for another price bump on Zen 4, knowing full well it's going to crush Alder Lake and Raptor Lake.
 
Associate
Joined
26 May 2017
Posts
360
When Lisa Su joined AMD and started reorganising, I could tell she was Doing Big Things. At that point, AMD was either going to go bust in the near future or they were going to go all in and pull rabbits out of hats. IIRC, I think I read some article on Semi-Accurate talking about her future plans, her building a war chest to go after Intel and Nvidia, and those first couple of years seem to indicate that she was doing exactly that. Intel has been pretty moribund since that time, so I'm not at all surprised they've been surpassed. Intel took their eye off the ball, AMD has innovated like never before.

This is why I believe AMD is not fussed about Alderlake, because they've jumped those fences and run into the distance a long time ago. AL gives Intel a little breathing room on the desktop, it does nothing for Intel in the HEDT or server space, and has no way forwards. It's a nothing burger in the big scheme of where the industry is going and the problems it has to overcome to get there (many of which AMD has already solved, built into products, and is selling left, right and centre).

Intel has to start pulling rabbits, not give us this nonsense of shaving dies and cranking up the power to silly levels and then sticking some little cores on the side to claim efficiency. That's all just trying to put a square peg in a round hole while marketing like crazy to convince us that's a good thing.
that's my view as well
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2013
Posts
3,622
When Lisa Su joined AMD and started reorganising, I could tell she was Doing Big Things. At that point, AMD was either going to go bust in the near future or they were going to go all in and pull rabbits out of hats. IIRC, I think I read some article on Semi-Accurate talking about her future plans, her building a war chest to go after Intel and Nvidia, and those first couple of years seem to indicate that she was doing exactly that. Intel has been pretty moribund since that time, so I'm not at all surprised they've been surpassed. Intel took their eye off the ball, AMD has innovated like never before.

This is why I believe AMD is not fussed about Alderlake, because they've jumped those fences and run into the distance a long time ago. AL gives Intel a little breathing room on the desktop, it does nothing for Intel in the HEDT or server space, and has no way forwards. It's a nothing burger in the big scheme of where the industry is going and the problems it has to overcome to get there (many of which AMD has already solved, built into products, and is selling left, right and centre).

Intel has to start pulling rabbits, not give us this nonsense of shaving dies and cranking up the power to silly levels and then sticking some little cores on the side to claim efficiency. That's all just trying to put a square peg in a round hole while marketing like crazy to convince us that's a good thing.

Good point!

I really didn't think Intel would take this long to come up with something. Even though it's seems a bit of a wing and a prayer stop gap for like you said for some breathing room.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2010
Posts
8,236
Location
Leeds
When Lisa Su joined AMD and started reorganising, I could tell she was Doing Big Things. At that point, AMD was either going to go bust in the near future or they were going to go all in and pull rabbits out of hats. IIRC, I think I read some article on Semi-Accurate talking about her future plans, her building a war chest to go after Intel and Nvidia, and those first couple of years seem to indicate that she was doing exactly that. Intel has been pretty moribund since that time, so I'm not at all surprised they've been surpassed. Intel took their eye off the ball, AMD has innovated like never before.

This is why I believe AMD is not fussed about Alderlake, because they've jumped those fences and run into the distance a long time ago. AL gives Intel a little breathing room on the desktop, it does nothing for Intel in the HEDT or server space, and has no way forwards. It's a nothing burger in the big scheme of where the industry is going and the problems it has to overcome to get there (many of which AMD has already solved, built into products, and is selling left, right and centre).

Intel has to start pulling rabbits, not give us this nonsense of shaving dies and cranking up the power to silly levels and then sticking some little cores on the side to claim efficiency. That's all just trying to put a square peg in a round hole while marketing like crazy to convince us that's a good thing.

Exactly :).

Well said. Also nice to see Intel finally get a wake up call to the reality they are in too and hopefully now they have woken up and things start getting back on track fixing these silly issues they are having with power use and their fabs that can't make IC's to match any other current fabs.

12 series is a band-aid for the 11 series mess that was very embarrassing for them, we just need to see what they come up with next and on a better fab node. If they fall back again like they did since AMD beat them with Ryzen then they are really in a lot of trouble, even giant companies of the past that no one thought would ever go bankrupt did, it's funny how everyone thought AMD was going to end up that way and now look at them.

Lets remember what Intel was originally, they were a memory company not a cpu one and now many other products from network, storage (they sold that now I think) etc.. that are keeping them making huge profits too and of course just their name sells products to many even if they are not great products, but the Intel name is slowly eroding too and they really need to get their act together with their cpu business for server, desktops + HEDT, laptops. Also lets hope Raja Koduri doesn't sink them into worse situations with their intel graphics cards as when he was at AMD Radeon he was the one sinking AMD graphics division... He was the worst thing to happen to AMD graphics, so lets see what he does at Intel now..
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,556
What did AMD do to combat Alderlake ?? They created a Crypto Currency that you can mine most effectively with ZEN 3 processors :cry::cry:


Yep and that way prices did not decrease

and even better, Intel believed AMD would cut price so Intel can take the premium pricing spot and now because AMD hasn't cut prices Intel has decided to raise its own prices such as 12900k which has gone up by $100
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Posts
47,543
Location
ARC-L1, Stanton System
When Lisa Su joined AMD and started reorganising, I could tell she was Doing Big Things. At that point, AMD was either going to go bust in the near future or they were going to go all in and pull rabbits out of hats. IIRC, I think I read some article on Semi-Accurate talking about her future plans, her building a war chest to go after Intel and Nvidia, and those first couple of years seem to indicate that she was doing exactly that. Intel has been pretty moribund since that time, so I'm not at all surprised they've been surpassed. Intel took their eye off the ball, AMD has innovated like never before.

This is why I believe AMD is not fussed about Alderlake, because they've jumped those fences and run into the distance a long time ago. AL gives Intel a little breathing room on the desktop, it does nothing for Intel in the HEDT or server space, and has no way forwards. It's a nothing burger in the big scheme of where the industry is going and the problems it has to overcome to get there (many of which AMD has already solved, built into products, and is selling left, right and centre).

Intel has to start pulling rabbits, not give us this nonsense of shaving dies and cranking up the power to silly levels and then sticking some little cores on the side to claim efficiency. That's all just trying to put a square peg in a round hole while marketing like crazy to convince us that's a good thing.


Robert Moore (Intel founder in 1968) and Jerry Sanders (AMD founder in 1969) were both from the Fairchild Semi Conductor Company, colleagues.

Long Story short...

Intel made Volatile Memory (RAM) AMD Logic Processors like the AM2901 (1975), they kept out of eachothers way early on, perhaps even complimenting eachother as they made different technologies used in the same systems.

RAM is obvious but Logic Processors are like CPU's only they are hard-wired to perform specific tasks, so you would need different ones to perform different tasks, or logic add-ons.

About a decade later, in 1978 Intel had a breakthrough in innovation, they created a processor programmable through logic extensions, a suite of extensions neatly packaged into the silicon, X86, with it there was no need for lots of Logic Processors performing specific tasks, now it could all be done on this single Central Processing Unit.

That meant computers could be used outside of institutions with all of their computer technicians and programmers, there was no need for them.
IBM thought they could sell these machines to the ordinary public for home use and gave Intel the contract to make the CPU's for them, the Personal Computer was born.

At the time silicon processors were difficult to make and yields were bad, supply was unreliable, IBM requested Intel use AMD as a second source of manufacturing, this required Intel to licence X86 to AMD, which they did, however Intel never actually gave AMD any orders.
So AMD made their own X86 Designs making AMD competitors to Intel, AMD's designs were better than Intel's, through the 1980's and 1990's AMD grew as a company, until eventually in the early 2000's AMD had grown its market share to equal that of Intel. Intel didn't like this and was gearing up to cancel that X86 licensing agreement, AMD knew this was coming and set about creating their own extensions, ones that would be important to CPU customers, X64 or AMD64 (64Bit) which they tagged on to X86, that's where you have X86_64, which proved extremely successful, Intel tried to compete with their own 64Bit architecture (Itanium) which was not successful, that forced Intel to licence X64 from AMD, now they are tied at the hip, Intel cannot cancel AMD X86 licence because they would lose X64. Today there isn't anything that doesn't use X64, X86 on its own is actually dead.
Its ironic but everything that made the CPU what it is and Intel with it is now little more than a dud platform for what's important to sit on. On your Intel and AMD system go to C:\Windows\WinSxS what you will find there is this.

EDznkLN.png


Intel could see where this was going and used their considerable war chest to buy off any would be AMD customer, denying AMD sales, not only did that arrest AMD's growth it very nearly killed them, the next thing AMD crapped out was Bulldozer but prior to that they used the few Billion $ (5.7 i think it was) they had left to buy ATI, doing that actually saved them. Just long enough to get back in to the games.

This is the history between them, there is animosity, AMD have scores to settle, they want to pick up where they left off.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,556
What is amd doing? It's moving to Samsung

that's what a new report from Digitimes says; AMD is apparently unhappy with the preferential treatment TSMC has given to Apple and it's affecting the pace at which AMD can develop and launch new products so now it's looking for alternatives and high up the list is to sign a deal with Samsung for Samsung to produce 3nm AMD chips.

If true this wouldn't affect Zen 4 and RDNA 3 as those are still going to be on 5nm TSMC but AMD has a problem that it won't be able to move down to TSMC 3nm because Apple is getting allocated all the wafers and it's not going to vacate that position until 2nm is available which may be a few years so AMD wants to use Samsung 3nm for Zen5 and RDNA 4
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Posts
47,543
Location
ARC-L1, Stanton System
What is amd doing? It's moving to Samsung

that's what a new report from Digitimes says; AMD is apparently unhappy with the preferential treatment TSMC has given to Apple and it's affecting the pace at which AMD can develop and launch new products so now it's looking for alternatives and high up the list is to sign a deal with Samsung for Samsung to produce 3nm AMD chips.

If true this wouldn't affect Zen 4 and RDNA 3 as those are still going to be on 5nm TSMC but AMD has a problem that it won't be able to move down to TSMC 3nm because Apple is getting allocated all the wafers and it's not going to vacate that position until 2nm is available which may be a few years so AMD wants to use Samsung 3nm for Zen5 and RDNA 4

Link?
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2013
Posts
3,622
What is amd doing? It's moving to Samsung

that's what a new report from Digitimes says; AMD is apparently unhappy with the preferential treatment TSMC has given to Apple and it's affecting the pace at which AMD can develop and launch new products so now it's looking for alternatives and high up the list is to sign a deal with Samsung for Samsung to produce 3nm AMD chips.

If true this wouldn't affect Zen 4 and RDNA 3 as those are still going to be on 5nm TSMC but AMD has a problem that it won't be able to move down to TSMC 3nm because Apple is getting allocated all the wafers and it's not going to vacate that position until 2nm is available which may be a few years so AMD wants to use Samsung 3nm for Zen5 and RDNA 4

I thought Samsung was on 8nm ?
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,556
I thought Samsung was on 8nm ?


Samsung has already taped out on 3nm GAA test silicon https://news.synopsys.com/2021-06-2...s-Access-to-Transformative-3nm-GAA-Technology

and plans to enter mass production phase in 2022/2023 https://news.samsung.com/global/sam...of-big-data-ai-ml-and-smart-connected-devices

Target for first 3nm supplies to customers is in 2022 with 2nd Gen 3nm in 2023, yields apparently already the same as its 4nm process and 3nm having 50% improvement over 5nm in power.


If the digitimes thing became a reality I suppose AMD would be after the 2nd Gen iteration of its 3nm process with better yields for zen5/rdna4 in late 2023
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom