AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - * NO COMPETITOR HINTING *

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:22

tamzzy said:
if you subscribe to the overhyped gouge ram - that is the b-die...
micron e-die is nearly just as good and less than half the cost, and can easily get 3200c14 speeds overclocked
not that ram speeds are a big performance determinant for ryzen 3000 anyway...

How many Ryzen systems do you have?

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:29

chrcoluk said:
You can buy 3200CL16 and make it 3200CL14 tho.

Exactly what i was saying. Go 3200 CL16 or anything cheaper. Now, tightening the cas is possible but not guaranteed.

tamzzy · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:35

Orange Nexus said:
How many Ryzen systems do you have?

relevance?

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:38

tamzzy said:
relevance?

So, you are going by the reviewers who can't even oc the ram and the cpu properly. Here is a 3200 CL14.

https://i.imgur.com/DmD04f6.jpg

Here is a members test results.

https://i.imgur.com/W0BetUQ.jpg

TrM · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:39

tamzzy said:
if you subscribe to the overhyped gouge ram - that is the b-die...
micron e-die is nearly just as good and less than half the cost, and can easily get 3200c14 speeds overclocked
not that ram speeds are a big performance determinant for ryzen 3000 anyway...

I brought a set of Corsair vengeance rob pro cl I8 22 22 22 42 ram from a competitor which has micron e die only tried at rated speed 3600 but managed to eat it stable at 17 17 17 37 which is better then I thought I would the ram cost less the 100 pounds. I was gonna get the dominator rgb ones but they was 70 pounds more and I couldn’t quite afford it after the 3900x and X570 upgrade

Perfect_Chaos · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:39

Why is 3600 quite a bit more expensive than 3200 ram? Can see the 3200 cl16 32GB Crucial kit is still on offer at their own site. Looks as if some games benefit more than others from ram speed like CSS.

Phate · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:42

Just got an email, my motherboard is available for collection

Picking up Thursday

chroniclard · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:44

Orange Nexus said:
So, you are going by the reviewers who can't even oc the ram and the cpu properly. Here is a 3200 CL14.

https://i.imgur.com/DmD04f6.jpg

Here is a members test results.

https://i.imgur.com/W0BetUQ.jpg

The more extensive tests dont show much improvement at all between 3200 tight and other higher speeds, if any. So for gaming at least, that expensive RAM money would be better spent elsewhere.

Of course this doesnt apply to people with no budget.

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:49

chroniclard said:
The more extensive tests dont show much improvement at all between 3200 tight and other higher speeds, if any. So for gaming at least, that expensive RAM money would be better spent elsewhere.

Of course this doesnt apply to people with no budget.

You got to take note of the timings in these tests. A 3200 CL14 might just be as good as a 3600 CL16 or a 4000 CL18. Im not advocating to buy expensive ram, but for some reviewers to declare that fast ram and tight timings do not affect performance of Ryzen 3000 need a closer scrutiny. That's all im saying.

The game cache and the ipc improvement may be all that we need. We can sacrifice ram.

tamzzy · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:50

Orange Nexus said:
Here is a members test results.
https://i.imgur.com/W0BetUQ.jpg

interesting test result, albeit just 1 test only.
i do wonder why then, that the 3 reviews i've seen so far tend to show (minimally) increasing fps when getting faster/tighter ram.
warrants a good looking at.

opethdisciple · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:51

Still unsure on this topic. Leave my 3200MHz C14 alone or overclock it to 3600MHZ C16?

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:52

tamzzy said:
interesting test result, albeit just 1 test only.
i do wonder why then, that the 3 reviews i've seen so far tend to show (minimally) increasing fps when getting faster/tighter ram.
warrants a good looking at.

Pls link one that used tight timings. Not 3600 CL16.

opethdisciple · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:53

tamzzy said:
interesting test result, albeit just 1 test only.
i do wonder why then, that the 3 reviews i've seen so far tend to show (minimally) increasing fps when getting faster/tighter ram.
warrants a good looking at.

I was reading earlier the benefit to a lower cas latency is when data is being swapped in and out rapidly. Random IO basically.

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:53

opethdisciple said:
Still unsure on this topic. Leave my 3200MHz C14 alone or overclock it to 3600MHZ C16?

You can do some tests yourself. Even a canned bench will work. Run a bench at 3200CL14 and one at 3600CL16.

Fast speed and tight timings are meant for gamers who are using high-end gpus.

opethdisciple · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:56

Orange Nexus said:
You can do some tests yourself. Even a canned bench will work. Run a bench at 3200CL14 and one at 3600CL16.

Will do then I install my 3700x

tamzzy · 23 Jul 2019 at 17:04

Orange Nexus said:
Pls link one that used tight timings. Not 3600 CL16.

the two i've seen are with 3733c16. tech report uses looser timings, so lets discount that then.
3733c16 = 8.57ns latency
3533c14 = 7.93ns latency

would dropping the latency by 8% give a 10-12% boost in SOTTR benchmarks?
as i said previously, at this early stage of ryzen 3000's life cycle, i'd be more weary if all reports come back congruent. i'd expect some to show faster/tighter ram = better, some to show otherwise. (basically the whole point of meta-analyses lol)

i'm curious now...

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 17:10

tamzzy said:
the two i've seen are with 3733c16. tech report uses looser timings, so lets discount that then.
3733c16 = 8.57ns latency
3533c14 = 7.93ns latency

would dropping the latency by 8% give a 10-12% boost in SOTTR benchmarks?
as i said previously, at this early stage of ryzen 3000's life cycle, i'd be more weary if all reports come back congruent. i'd expect some to show faster/tighter ram = better, some to show otherwise. (basically the whole point of meta-analyses lol)

i'm curious now...

From that it is obvious that 3600 CL16 will have higher latency. A 3466 CL14, which can be easily reached by a 3200 CL14 ram, might even be better than that 3733.

So, we can agree that more tests are needed and going by reviewers analysis of effect of ram cannot be relied on.

I made a bobo. sorry. Earlier we have a member who shared his finding in Cine15. From DOCP 3600 (i assume CL16) to 3600CL14, he gained 40 pts.

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 17:11

delete

tamzzy · 23 Jul 2019 at 17:23

Orange Nexus said:
So, we can agree that more tests are needed and going by reviewers analysis of effect of ram cannot be relied on.

we can only go by what is available in front of us at this point. like smoking (cancer), thalidomide (fetal malformations) to name but a few.
as newer evidence comes to light, then we'd know more.

at the moment, we have:
1) one test with all over the shop ram showing minimal improvement
2) two tests that shows an improvement, albeit minimal, going up ram speeds
3) one screenshot on one benchmark showing decreased latency giving a hefty boost to performance.

PS: linky to the source of that pic?

Orange Nexus · 23 Jul 2019 at 17:33

tamzzy said:
we can only go by what is available in front of us at this point. like smoking (cancer), thalidomide (fetal malformations) to name but a few.
as newer evidence comes to light, then we'd know more.

at the moment, we have:
1) one test with all over the shop ram showing minimal improvement
2) two tests that shows an improvement, albeit minimal, going up ram speeds
3) one screenshot on one benchmark showing decreased latency giving a hefty boost to performance.

PS: linky to the source of that pic?

Here tam, post 830

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/zen-2-owners-thread.18858946/page-42

Here the Cine 15 Results, post 22371 (ref to 22366)

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...3000-no-competitor-hinting.18825852/page-1119

Competitor rules

AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - * NO COMPETITOR HINTING *