AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[TrixX]

as discussed proof that these amd chips are as some state on here. 2 times as fast . faster mid range or low end than 9900ks. people are getting swept away based on a cinebench score. not seen one bit of proof out of 181 pages which shows any of this is true.

What proof do you want? Information was garnered by the press about different attributes of the CPU which allow with some deductive reasoning relatively accurate speculation on the product.

We do know that the CPU used was a single CCX 8c 16t die with the I/O die. It's also a 65W part according to the tech press from the event. It's also confirmed that the lower position on the die will be filled with another 8c 16t ccx or lower binned 6c 12t CCX to allow for the 12c 24t version, just as the Ryzen 3 model will likely run a 6c 12t single die.

We also know the range the frequency of the CPU used was which is between 4.0GHz to 4.5GHz. There's quite reliable info that it was actually running at 4.5GHz but it's not 100% confirmed.

Other points are, the CPU ran 57W lower than the 9900K during the test run and we also know that it didn't have a boost clock just an all core clock so it's idle wattage was basically at TDP with 66W.

Extrapolating performance of the 16c product from that run assuming same memory and similar scenario and factoring in further losses at a 10% perf loss puts it at ~3900 for a Cinebench run beating all the 16c processors currently available.

Yes there's some educated guessing and speculation going on, but we won't have hard data for a while and it'll be interesting to see how close those guesses are when we do. The last point DG is you are dogmatically asking for proof of a negative then trying to use that as some justification for trying to **** on everyones discussion. If you have something useful to add, please do so. If you just want to act salty don't bother. I couldn't care less if you want the 3xxx to beat the 9900K or not. Most here trying to discuss the new Ryzen's don't care either.

It's interesting that it beat the 9900K at stock settings with the motherboard auto-OC still active, but to those interested in the Ryzen's it's nothing more than intriguing and finding out that the SKU is basically the leaked 65W 3600 non-X part is even more intriguing.

 

[LePhuronn]

Maybe a return to unlocking cores?

Unlocking a 12c/24t Ryzen 7 to 14 or even 16 cores? Or getting a 6 core Ryzen 3 up to a full 8 core Ryzen 5? Oh glory day!

 

[lltfdaniel]

Anyways who is looking forward to the zen 2 release in q2 this year?

 

[~>Dg<~]

Ok No more accusing others of trolling.. If you think people are genuinely trolling in an attempt to take a topic off subject, then report , let us deal with it. Then ignore it.

Anyone calling others trolls is trolling and will be dealt with.

 

[humbug]

Yeah, System power 180 Watts 9900K vs 130 Watts Zen 2 this is likely to be the 65 Watt part, the 3600, that's mind blowing because its the gimped version of the mid range Ryzen 5 at least as fast as Intel's latest and greatest, the 3600X should muller it.

 

[TrixX]

Yeah, System power 180 Watts 9900K vs 130 Watts Zen 2 this is likely to be the 65 Watt part, the 3600, that's mind blowing because its the gimped version of the mid range Ryzen 5 at least as fast as Intel's latest and greatest, the 3600X should muller it.

Indeed it's actually very interesting to look at, as the 3600X is listed in the leaks as a 95W part giving it a ton more headroom to play with.

 

[Jokester]

Guys, can we cut out the calling out of trolls (don't feed them!).

We will be looking at taking further action (suspensions / thread bans) if the trolling isn't cut out.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

This is the crux of the whole debate.
Chiplet design, especially at such small process nodes, is revolutionary. Yields should be phenomenal.
Its exciting because AMD struggle with any big upfront costs, and here we're expecting unprecedented demand; those costs are spread over such a large number of units that their cost per SKU is likely as low as it has ever been, and should continue to drop. These 3rd gen SKUs will likely have relevance for sales revenue even after their 4th gen comes out.

Spot on. such a tiny chip will yield better anyway and with the opportunity to cut it down to 6 or 4 cores means unless a die is completely messed up it should be useful somewhere in the product stack. There will be very little waste per wafer.

I see no reason why this should be anything less than utter dominance from AMD for the next year or so at least.

 

[humbug]

Spot on. such a tiny chip will yield better anyway and with the opportunity to cut it down to 6 or 4 cores means unless a die is completely messed up it should be useful somewhere in the product stack. There will be very little waste per wafer.

I see no reason why this should be anything less than utter dominance from AMD for the next year or so at least.

Is it Icelake? Intel's next CPU isn't out until end 2020, even then it looks like another Die shrunk SkyLake, on the Desktop they've had it.

 

[Jokester]

Spot on. such a tiny chip will yield better anyway and with the opportunity to cut it down to 6 or 4 cores means unless a die is completely messed up it should be useful somewhere in the product stack. There will be very little waste per wafer.

I see no reason why this should be anything less than utter dominance from AMD for the next year or so at least.

And I think this is what people are missing as well as regards cost. What use is having a 16C chip at £800 or whatever if they end up having a warehouse full of them because they can't shift them quick enough at that price. These will be volume products.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

And I think this is what people are missing as well as regards cost. What use is having a 16C chip at £800 or whatever if they end up having a warehouse full of them because they can't shift them quick enough at that price. These will be volume products.

It's almost certainly going to be a good time for progress .

 

[mahius]

Spot on. such a tiny chip will yield better anyway and with the opportunity to cut it down to 6 or 4 cores means unless a die is completely messed up it should be useful somewhere in the product stack. There will be very little waste per wafer.

I see no reason why this should be anything less than utter dominance from AMD for the next year or so at least.

Makes me wonder if this is the future of CPUs (like multicore was over a decade ago)? I.e. will we see Intel and other CPU manufacturers adopt the chiplet design too? I can see it now, people hyped for the latest hex-chiplet CPU from AMD at CES 2030, wanting it to beat out Intel's quad-chiplet flagship.

If this really is the case that it's actualy cheaper than traditional design, then it is entirely possible that we'll get 8 core Ryzen 5s (priced like a Ryzen 5) and 16-core Ryzen 9s.

 

[SiDeards73]

Guys, can we cut out the calling out of trolls (don't feed them!).

We will be looking at taking further action (suspensions / thread bans) if the trolling isn't cut out.

Come on Jokester ban them already, they are adding Zero to this thread, you have warned them many times already in this thread. Just ban them and be done with it so us adults can actually discuss and theorize the products without the constant rubbish from a few certain individuals.

Back on topic, it's interesting thinking about Threadripper, it was never supposed to be a thing, but it seems it surprised AMD with how popular it's become.

I think we will see a product shift

Top Ryzen will be 16/32
Entry TR will be 16/32, followed by 24/48 and finally 32/64. This will give some monstrous productivity machines and render Intel's already laughable defunct 28c HEDT chips as positively ridiculous in comparison.

AMD with Zen have managed to mastermind a masterstroke by taking the fight to Intel in pretty much every segment. And are going to surpass them performance wise.

The question is how long can AMD maintain that lead for? They said the solution to Moore's law was chiplet design, they have got their first in a meaningful manner, for sure Intel are working on similar, AMD need to keep pushing and investing now to stay on top I feel.

Future is exceptionally exciting right now in the CPU space, and soon in the console space, all we need now is this type of excitement in the GPU space.

 

[lltfdaniel]

It's almost certainly going to be a good time for progress .

Progress, it will prompt intel to take action due to the better competition from amd i think.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Progress, it will prompt intel to take action due to the better competition from amd i think.

Exactly. They absolutely have to catch up before mindshare really starts to shift toward AMD or they will lose massive amounts of money and marketshare.

The server market is already leaning more toward AMD than ever before and some big wins like AWS and Google are reason enough to continue pushing the envelope as hard as possible.

 

[humbug]

Come on Jokester ban them already, they are adding Zero to this thread, you have warned them many times already in this thread. Just ban them and be done with it so us adults can actually discuss and theorize the products without the constant rubbish from a few certain individuals.

Back on topic, it's interesting thinking about Threadripper, it was never supposed to be a thing, but it seems it surprised AMD with how popular it's become.

I think we will see a product shift

Top Ryzen will be 16/32
Entry TR will be 16/32, followed by 24/48 and finally 32/64. This will give some monstrous productivity machines and render Intel's already laughable defunct 28c HEDT chips as positively ridiculous in comparison.

AMD with Zen have managed to mastermind a masterstroke by taking the fight to Intel in pretty much every segment. And are going to surpass them performance wise.

The question is how long can AMD maintain that lead for? They said the solution to Moore's law was chiplet design, they have got their first in a meaningful manner, for sure Intel are working on similar, AMD need to keep pushing and investing now to stay on top I feel.

Future is exceptionally exciting right now in the CPU space, and soon in the console space, all we need now is this type of excitement in the GPU space.

Intel are used to massive margins on retail desktop CPU's and at very high volume, this subsidises OEM markets where to keep AMD out they practically give their chips away.

If AMD eat more and more into Intel's Desktop market share they will be forced to drop prices, maybe even just to stop themselves from becoming completely irrelevant in the retail desktop scene, with that Intel are not go be able to subsidise their OEM dominance, which will help AMD gain OEM volume.

AMD are about to crush Intel's best desktop CPU costing £500 with what i think will be a £200 part, in the short term Intel have had it, they cannot compete with that and i think it will take them a couple of years just to catch up with AMD.

 

[Potatowithearsontheside]

On the topic of Threadripper, do we think it too has its own separate IO die?
Logic says yes, since Epyc and Ryzen have 8 and 2 channel memory, whilst Threadripper has 4, however, one of the previous posts mentioned Ryzen perhaps having 4 memory controllers, 2 of them being redundant(?). Is this likely?
On a similar theme, I don't see AMD purposely laser cutting functional cores for segmentation even if yield is unreal, so old school unlocking of redundant cores may well be possible. That being said, I guess we might have seen it in the first 2 generations if it was possible, though I suppose that an 8c chiplet might offer more scope in that regard.

 

[Potatowithearsontheside]

Intel are used to massive margins on retail desktop CPU's and at very high volume, this subsidises OEM markets where to keep AMD out they practically give their chips away.

If AMD eat more and more into Intel's Desktop market share they will be forced to drop prices, maybe even just to stop themselves from becoming completely irrelevant in the retail desktop scene, with that Intel are not go be able to subsidise their OEM dominance, which will help AMD gain OEM volume.

AMD are about to crush Intel's best desktop CPU costing £500 with what i think will be a £200 part, in the short term Intel have had it, they cannot compete with that and i think it will take them a couple of years just to catch up with AMD.

I suspect that the next gen Intel desktop CPUs will be on a 14nm process but with improved cores. They could still have a hand in this fight yet, but at the cost of being well behind on performance/watt.
That strikes me as an opportunity for AMD; push hard on mobile, utilising that perf/watt where it is most relevant, and getting a foot through the door with OEMs since they are begging for improved performance at very low power. However, AMD seriously need to sort out idle power draw for that market.

 

[lltfdaniel]

Intel are used to massive margins on retail desktop CPU's and at very high volume, this subsidises OEM markets where to keep AMD out they practically give their chips away.

If AMD eat more and more into Intel's Desktop market share they will be forced to drop prices, maybe even just to stop themselves from becoming completely irrelevant in the retail desktop scene, with that Intel are not go be able to subsidise their OEM dominance, which will help AMD gain OEM volume.

AMD are about to crush Intel's best desktop CPU costing £500 with what i think will be a £200 part, in the short term Intel have had it, they cannot compete with that and i think it will take them a couple of years just to catch up with AMD.

I agree with that assumption about it being a £200 part and they certainly cannot compete with that.

Unless amd shoots them self's in the foot that is the odds are somewhat high for amd to push for much higher prices and do a nvidia or intel but in the end they have to make a profit and please shareholders.

So with current prices like the 2700x we can expect something like that from amd again which is where the assumption comes from.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

I do wonder if for potential 8 and 12 core parts they may end up with different chiplet configurations. Something like 6+6 vs 4+8 for 12 core configs would possibly end up with slightly differing performance in multithreaded programs. Same for 6+2/4+4/8+0 for 8 core systems.