AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[LePhuronn]

Don't see them releasing a 4-core 7nm chiplet design CPU, it will end up costing more than the equivalent 14nm version due to the I/O die (for now). Athlon should move to 4c/4t, with APU, in other words a 2200G.

Which is where I think Renoir is going. "There's no GPU chiplet for the current Matisse design" they said. But the Zen 2 APUs are Renoir.

It also depends on if Athlon is repositioned to always have integrated graphics, and then do Renoir "G" APUs in the Ryzen 3 and 5 lines with 6 and 8 cores.

Laptops may well be a different kettle of fish, but then creating monolithic dies with Zen 2 at the core (no pun)? Or perhaps just a smaller I/O die? There may not have been operational and performance wins by having the I/O die on 7nm, but you'd certainly make footprint wins in doing so.

 

[Murphy]

So the only real unknown is pricing. Everybody is expecting a bit of a bump to cover R&D and the increased core counts (should each tier get a count bump), but as discussed repeatedly it is not in AMD's interests (read sales, market and investor suicide) to price gouge or charge Intel money, even if the performance is there.

Don't forget AMD will probably be making a larger profit margin on each CPU than what Intel does, we already know AMD are getting around 70% yields from 7nm whereas Intel are getting anything from 30-80'ish% depending on how many cores each CPU has (AMD's yields will be 70% no matter how many cores a CPU has because of the chiplet approach).

135W

7nm gives half power for same performance, so slash 2700X in half: 52W. Now double the core count and we're back up to 104W. Now factor in some fudging because these things are never linear, and also we still have package to displace all the heat generated. Sap on a generous fudge and round the numbers for aesthetic nicety; 135W.

IIRC I've read that TSCM have said 7nm reduce power by around 30%, that's probably a clock-for-clock comparisons so depending on final clock speeds (voltages) that could end up being less.

 

[DragonQ]

mmm keep looking at the table above and cringe and the naming scheme .

specially since AMD has mirrored Intel to allow uniformity slightly and those that are familial with intel to jump ship to AMD easily enough . Plus ryzen 1000/2000 has already established a naming scheme to which intel is running into their own issues with 10th gen adding more cores .

Make more sense for AMD to keep scheme the same

athlon - 2 cores
Ryzen 3 - 4 cores
Ryzen 5 - 6 cores
Ryzen 7 - 8 cores
Ryzen 9 - 12 cores to match and beat intels 9th and 10th series
Ryzen 11 - 16 cores to rub in the salt - specially intel's 9900k 8 core and 9900x 10 core get confusing along to different platforms

dont have a feeling ryzen will drop 4 cores because its budget friendly , and an office pc doesnt need cores as standard . heck 2 cores and 4 threads is fine .

time will tell i guess

Poo-poo all you want, I am looking forward to the Core i11-10990K.

Don't see them releasing a 4-core 7nm chiplet design CPU, it will end up costing more than the equivalent 14nm version due to the I/O die (for now). Athlon should move to 4c/4t, with APU, in other words a 2200G.

Depends if the power savings warrant it. For desktop, probably not. For mobile, you can be sure we will see 4 core 7nm Renoir chips.

 

[Journey]

Depends if the power savings warrant it. For desktop, probably not. For mobile, you can be sure we will see 4 core 7nm Renoir chips.

Yes, I am referring to DT parts only. I fully expect a full 7nm design APU for the low power laptop segment, something that would go inside the Dell XPS 13 for example, but with 4/6/8 core options, they are 9 months away at the moment though.

 

[LePhuronn]

Don't forget AMD will probably be making a larger profit margin on each CPU than what Intel does, we already know AMD are getting around 70% yields from 7nm whereas Intel are getting anything from 30-80'ish% depending on how many cores each CPU has (AMD's yields will be 70% no matter how many cores a CPU has because of the chiplet approach).

So theoretically AMD could keep the tier prices the same as they are now (adjusted for inflation) and make a healthy profit.

IIRC I've read that TSCM have said 7nm reduce power by around 30%, that's probably a clock-for-clock comparisons so depending on final clock speeds (voltages) that could end up being less.

I was going by AMD's presentation slides for my mathematical tomfoolery. TSMC's numbers would push things up - 165W doesn't sounds quite as nice (2 lots of 73W + wiggle room), but still a fat wedge cooler than a 9900K at full chat.

 

[Potatowithearsontheside]

I'm not so sure it's as simple as divide by 2.
We know that the cores themselves use barely any power, and it's there that the 50% reduction comes in. Offsetting that you still have the IO die, and we know that IF was the thing sucking up most of the power with Zen/Zen+.
If AMD have sorted out the IF then who knows how little power they couod scale down to very well. That's the big issue with Ryzen on laptops for me; you can throw a bunch of extra cores for nearly no extra power consumption, but that's no good if your IF is sucking up a big chunk in the first place as you limit the bottom end significantly.

 

[Journey]

So theoretically AMD could keep the tier prices the same as they are now (adjusted for inflation) and make a healthy profit.

It would be nice to see that happen, especially at the lower end of the 8c/16t range. Speaking of which you can pick up an R&7 1700 for £129 now!

 

[Troezar]

OK so what are the guesstimates for the price of the 12C part? I can't see it being under £350, £399 wouldn't surprise me.

 

[~>Dg<~]

forget usd prices we will be gouged like a boss here. if they faster than a i7 single ipc and 12 core and do 4.5 get ready to have your pants pulled down.

 

[Journey]

forget usd prices we will be gouged like a boss here. if they faster than a i7 single ipc and 12 core and do 4.5 get ready to have your pants pulled down.

I'd say that is completely irrelevant, now that several US E-tailers have global stores, and cover the postage and import fees in the total cost. You only need to look at how many people ordered 9900K from the US to save £70-150 due to idiot UK retailers taking the mickey.

 

[Troezar]

I'd say that is completely irrelevant, now that several US E-tailers have global stores, and cover the postage and import fees in the total cost. You only need to look at how many people ordered 9900K from the US to save £70-150 due to idiot UK retailers taking the mickey.

That's a good point as I noticed recently Google quoting me prices from US stores as well as UK retailers. Also apparently Ryzen 3000 has been in production for some time now so stock levels should be high.

 

[~>Dg<~]

hope thats the case as 12 core does seem to be nice. usa cant be doing with the hassle . especially if any issues arise.

 

[EsaT]

forget usd prices we will be gouged like a boss here. if they faster than a i7 single ipc and 12 core and do 4.5 get ready to have your pants pulled down.

I don't think most people have any pants left after last couple years of Intel and Nvidia...

hope thats the case as 12 core does seem to be nice. usa cant be doing with the hassle . especially if any issues arise.

Being able to use computing dies with one or two broken/bad clocking cores should make finding dies for 12 core model relatively easy.
There's going to be lot bigger amount of such dies than those with all eight cores good/high clocking.

 

[Journey]

hope thats the case as 12 core does seem to be nice. usa cant be doing with the hassle . especially if any issues arise.

Put item in basket, checkout and pay, wait for delivery. You receive failed AMD CPU, you contact AMD and they replace it, it's a global warranty.

 

[Stephanie Peterson]

hope thats the case as 12 core does seem to be nice. usa cant be doing with the hassle . especially if any issues arise.

This really does look like the big winner, ok i know folk will want the 16 (if it comes out, prob will) but ... the 12, its gonna be in a sweet spot like a more gruntier 8 core.
If we do see the 10-15% uplift on the ipc and the clocks fall in the 4.5-say 4.7... for that part then.. well its gunna be a fight to the front lol...

Looking forward to this release, this is the biggest change in cpu design i think we have seen in years - physically at least.. even if they dont come out really swinging performance wise its still going to be a great thing.

 

[ricid]

It'll be interesting to see what happens to performance on 2 chiplets vs 1 (8 vs 12 cores)

I suspect the 12 core will be the enthusiast value chip - i.e. plenty fast without paying the halo product premium, but will there be some conditions in which it's worse than the 8?

 

[LePhuronn]

OK so what are the guesstimates for the price of the 12C part? I can't see it being under £350, £399 wouldn't surprise me.

If AMD give us a core bump on every tier then 12c/24t will be Ryzen 7 and I'd put it about £330 (about the same as the 2700X on launch)

If AMD don't give us a core bump then 12c/24t will be Ryzen 9 and that'll probably hit £380, leaving space for a 16c/32t at around £430-£450

 

[Troezar]

If AMD give us a core bump on every tier then 12c/24t will be Ryzen 7 and I'd put it about £330 (about the same as the 2700X on launch)

If AMD don't give us a core bump then 12c/24t will be Ryzen 9 and that'll probably hit £380, leaving space for a 16c/32t at around £430-£450

I could live with that kind of pricing. I don't expect AMD to give them away. Hopefully they can make some healthy profits this round to keep the R&D going.

 

[smilingcrow]

If AMD don't give us a core bump then 12c/24t will be Ryzen 9 and that'll probably hit £380, leaving space for a 16c/32t at around £430-£450

I very much doubt they will have such a small delta between a 12C and 16C.
I could see the top bin 8C at £250 and the 16C at £500 with 12C under £400.
Those would be decent prices but they could go more aggressive easily I suspect.

 

[Troezar]

I very much doubt they will have such a small delta between a 12C and 16C.
I could see the top bin 8C at £250 and the 16C at £500 with 12C under £400.
Those would be decent prices but they could go more aggressive easily I suspect.

A factor may be how they want to pitch it in relation to Threadripper. I can see motherboard pricing being closer to Z390 with a lot more boards over £250.