AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[Journey]

I fully get where your coming from @Journey and i hope you are right. My experience with my journey with Ryzen so far though tells me that AMD got the binning process right with the original Ryzen release. They also got it right with Ryzen+, i can't see them getting it wrong with Ryzen 2.

It's a different kettle of fish though when you are in changing not just the node and process, but the supplier as well. I agree with you about the 14nm/12nm parts from GF however, they did seem to get the most from them but they really were pushing the boundaries of the process to get speeds from the Zen/Zen+ design. Interestingly I've had a great deal of luck with the 2600 CPU's, especially recently with most easily hitting the same as the 2600Xs I had previously used, but most of the 2700's were not great at all, which fits with the high bins for the 2700X.

 

[Yaayuh!]

Don't want to damp down anyone's bonfire here, but the X versions are X for a reason. I was a very early adopter with a 1700, assuming it would clock manually higher than an 1800X. It never did, in fact it's maximum stable all core clock was 3.8Ghz. The 2700X that replaced it, does an all core clock of 4.25Ghz just using PBO and Level 4 on my CH6.
AMD are that good at binning parts now, if you want the best CPU, i think the reality is you simply just have to buy the best one. I think a lot of peeps will be disappointed if they think they can clock a lower binned part the same as a higher binned part, those days are long gone i think.

Completely agree.
Of all the builds I’ve done I’ve never been able to Overclockers the lesser chip to match the X. One came close (2600 to a 2600X).

 

[FoxEye]

Good, good... 3700X it is, then I'm not much of an overclocker anyhow.

/looks around furtively

 

[chrcoluk]

I think it completely depends on how close to the edge they are pushing the chips, and the number of quality CPU chiplets being produced. If there is headroom left in the process and design then there is certainly a chance they will not be pushing this generation to the very maximum, and if the yields and quality of the silcon are good then you have another possible edge. You also have to counter in down binning once production ramps up, it's pretty obvious the the highest demand CPU is going to be the mid-range variant, so maybe 8c/16t chips will end up better than you think in order to supply the demand. Lots of if's, and's and could's but you get the picture.

There will be some chips where it can be done, but I dont think it will be a given.

I would rather pay an extra 25% or so for the guarantee than go into a silicon lottery which based on my history I will likely lose.

The so called success stories on reddit for non X chips arent great either, plain 2600 owners getting clock and voltage combos which arent great. The success stories typically are about a 4ghz clock speed. Whilst my 2600X at stock settings hits 4.25.

 

[Journey]

Not sure if anyone posted this, but this is the spec sheet for the X570 board from Biostar.


Looks nice enough, plenty of expansion options. Not sure how many of them are shared, but 16x/8x/4x slots, three 1x slots, and 1 M.2 from the CPU and 2 M.2 from the PCH. That totals 43x PCI-E lanes, but I'd imagine the 1x are from the PCH and share bandwidth with one of the M.2 slots.

 

[Troezar]

Not sure if anyone posted this, but this is the spec sheet for the X570 board from Biostar.


Looks nice enough, plenty of expansion options. Not sure how many of them are shared, but 16x/8x/4x slots, three 1x slots, and 1 M.2 from the CPU and 2 M.2 from the PCH. That totals 43x PCI-E lanes, but I'd imagine the 1x are from the PCH and share bandwidth with one of the M.2 slots.

The best bit to me is all m.2 are full speed. Would that mean you could get a x16 GPU and 3 full speed m.2 at the same time?

 

[Journey]

The best bit to me is all m.2 are full speed. Would that mean you could get a x16 GPU and 3 full speed m.2 at the same time?

Assuming they are running at 3.0 PCI-E spec then yes, but one of them may share some bandwidth with the SATA or USB 3.1 ports. Since you can only get 8x 3.0 lanes from 4x PCI-E 4.0, and that board states two of the M.2s are from the PCH, I mean they could have upgraded the PCH to 8x lanes for all we know.

 

[Bluntwrapped]

I’m wondering if a low profile air cooler will be enough to keep the 65w Ryzen 3600 from thermal throttling. If yes, I’d Be tempted to get one for an upcoming SFF build. The Intel 9900t 35w does look interesting but the suggested launch price is insane.

 

[hyperseven]

Not sure if anyone posted this, but this is the spec sheet for the X570 board from Biostar.


Looks nice enough, plenty of expansion options. Not sure how many of them are shared, but 16x/8x/4x slots, three 1x slots, and 1 M.2 from the CPU and 2 M.2 from the PCH. That totals 43x PCI-E lanes, but I'd imagine the 1x are from the PCH and share bandwidth with one of the M.2 slots.

#7367

 

[Journey]

I’m wondering if a low profile air cooler will be enough to keep the 65w Ryzen 3600 from thermal throttling. If yes, I’d Be tempted to get one for an upcoming SFF build. The Intel 9900t 35w does look interesting but the suggested launch price is insane.

The T series chips are the same price as non T parts at the top end of the range, so the 9900/9900K part prices will be what you'd expect to pay. I just sold off a load of 4770T's for the more than the 95w 4770's would have sold for due to the demand for them.

As for throttling, it depends on what you are intending to cool it with and what you consider to be SFF. We use 35w CPU's in 1U chassis with low profile (noisy) coolers, and they don't throttle unless the ambient temp gets really high, but for the most part they are in AC rooms.

 

[Journey]

#7367

You posted a link to Video-cardz? Sorry but I hate going to external websites (especially those ones) next time quote Reddit and I'll look at it

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Good, good... 3700X it is, then I'm not much of an overclocker anyhow.

/looks around furtively

Considering XFR, it's not even always best to try and overclock Ryzen. You can't always hit an all core speed, that matches or exceeds the XFR boost for 1-2 cores anyway; so in some games an all core overclock will give slightly less performance than letting XFR do it's thing.

Now with Zen two XFR could be improved even further, or it might all be binned enough to clock even better; once again the X model might just be the best overall if you're not much of an overclocking tinkerer anyway.

Might get better performance leaving at XFR/Stock, and getting better RAM with decent Mhz, and tighter timings; as those can really help Ryzen perform.
Nevermind the X models coming with the rather decent AMD Wraith cooler, no need for spending more money on a seperate Air , or AIO water cooling unit then.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

RGT guy on YT reckons the all core clock of the 3700x is 4550mhz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fn84tLVbBk

No Fred monsters in this one.

 

[BongoHunter]

I that Biostar X570 board has something odd on the spec with regards to the M2 slots.

- On the spec as 4 lanes
- On the spec as PCIE4
- On the spec as 32 Gb/s

Not all these things can be true at once surely?

32Gb/s would be correct for 4xPCIE Gen 3 lanes, but Gen 4 should be double that, or its just 2 Gen 4 lanes?

 

[Journey]

32Gb/s would be correct for 4xPCIE Gen 3 lanes, but Gen 4 should be double that, or its just 2 Gen 4 lanes?

They will be running at 3.0 since there is little point in having 4.0 as there are practically zero devices to take advantage of such speeds. A simple BIOS option would be in place to switch it over and disable one I'd imagine, but it depends on how the manufacturer chooses to implement it.

 

[Skynet5]

RGT guy on YT reckons the all core clock of the 3700x is 4550mhz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fn84tLVbBk

No Fred monsters in this one.

Damn. His voice was so irritating I had to turn him off

 

[FoxEye]

Considering XFR, it's not even always best to try and overclock Ryzen. You can't always hit an all core speed, that matches or exceeds the XFR boost for 1-2 cores anyway; so in some games an all core overclock will give slightly less performance than letting XFR do it's thing.

Now with Zen two XFR could be improved even further, or it might all be binned enough to clock even better; once again the X model might just be the best overall if you're not much of an overclocking tinkerer anyway.

Might get better performance leaving at XFR/Stock, and getting better RAM with decent Mhz, and tighter timings; as those can really help Ryzen perform.
Nevermind the X models coming with the rather decent AMD Wraith cooler, no need for spending more money on a seperate Air , or AIO water cooling unit then.

RAM is on my mind anyhow, as I play (now and again) Dwarf Fortress, which does/needs an insanely high amount of random accesses to RAM, as it's continually looking up thousands of entities every tick.

Apparently for DF RAM timings are more important than even single threaded perf (the game isn't multi-threaded yet/if ever).

I'm clueless about RAM tho so will need to do some proper digging around on launch to optimise for DF.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

RAM is on my mind anyhow, as I play (now and again) Dwarf Fortress, which does/needs an insanely high amount of random accesses to RAM, as it's continually looking up thousands of entities every tick.

Apparently for DF RAM timings are more important than even single threaded perf (the game isn't multi-threaded yet/if ever).

I'm clueless about RAM tho so will need to do some proper digging around on launch to optimise for DF.

For Ryzen Samsung b-die is the best, then focus on low timings. I posted a link to a site that catalogues said ram for Ryzen, and shows the latency responses also. Best way to find the best possible compatible, and performing ram.

 

[Silent_Scone]

My advice would be to buy the highest bin as your budget allows.

 

[Beren]

The rumor was for the 3700x to have a base clock of 4.2ghz - I would guess that the RGT leak is around all core turbo. At 4.55ghz that's what 400mhz over the 2700x on all core? If single core mirrors that it would be around 4.8Ghz. Not too shabby if that is standard. Though if the 2700x is anything to go by the chances of achieving better results by overclocking versus XFR are slim.

It is going to all depend on the mythical IPC numbers to see where it sits against Intels top offerings.