AMD Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000) already in the works

[Journey]

This is more likely. They will tease Zen 3 performance at Computex, launch Epyc end of year, then Ryzen 4000 in 2021 as new motherboards appear.

Sucks to be me, decided to wait for Ryzen 4k.
But again, makes sense for AMD.

EPYC will more than likely be after OEM/consumer parts, EPYC Rome launched after Ryzen 3xxx desktop parts.

AMD have no reason to delay any launch longer than Q4 '20, they have momentum, and staying relevant and in the news/press helps a lot growing marketing and mind share amongst non-enthusiast buyers.

Also gives users more of a reason to buy a new CPU knowing it can be used for a longer period of time without having to worry about upgrading.

What stops you from using it as long as you originally intended, even if they launched 50 new CPU's a year?

If I buy a Ryzen 7 3700X and intend to use it for 3 years, then AMD bring the 4700X in April (I know they are not)why would hat force me to upgrade sooner?

 

[Deleted member 209350]

What stops you from using it as long as you originally intended, even if they launched 50 new CPU's a year?

If I buy a Ryzen 7 3700X and intend to use it for 3 years, then AMD bring the 4700X in April (I know they are not)why would hat force me to upgrade sooner?

Its more for the enthusiast space where people tend to upgrade all the time. Also won't get a heavy dosage of buyers remorse buying a CPU only to have a better one come out within 12 months and having the itch to upgrade.

 

[Journey]

Its more for the enthusiast space where people tend to upgrade all the time. Also won't get a heavy dosage of buyers remorse buying a CPU only to have a better one come out within 12 months and having the itch to upgrade.

Isn't that a good thing, if performance is increased so much in 12 months that you want to get something better?

I mean Intel launched all of these within the about a year of each other, 2600k, 3770k, 4770k, 4790k, skipped a year due to failed Broadwell range, 6700K, 7700K, 8700K, etc.

There issue was there wasn't much of a difference so the enthusiast had nothing to do other than twiddle thumbs, until Ryzen arrived in 2016 and then the 8700K.

 

[humbug]

I think AMD's are waiting a bit to see if Intel go 10nm mainstream before the end of this year.

 

[Troezar]

I think AMD's are waiting a bit to see if Intel go 10nm mainstream before the end of this year.

I think AMD need to try and keep as far ahead as they can. Intel will come back and they will be very competitive.

 

[humbug]

I think AMD need to try and keep as far ahead as they can. Intel will come back and they will be very competitive.

Intel claims an 18% IPC gain over Coffeelake with Ice Lake.

That puts Ice Lake 5% ahead of Zen 2 and Ice Lake doesn't clock as well as Zen 2.

AMD claim Zen 3 has an IPC gain of 17% over Zen 2, that would put Zen 3 12% ahead of Ice Lake and will clock at least as high as Zen 2.

Edit: Zen 2 vs Zen 3 +50% Floating Point, +12% Integer. +17% overall.

 

[NinjaCool]

AMD needs to throw everything they got, including the kitchen sink at Intel because they are fighting a big giant with massive cash reserves so they simply cannot afford to take it easy.

 

[humbug]

AMD needs to throw everything they got, including the kitchen sink at Intel because they are fighting a big giant with massive cash reserves so they simply cannot afford to take it easy.

Yeah, i agree with this and @Troezar AMD need to bring thier improved cores out as soon as they are ready, its about mindshare and denying Intel sales, sitting on thier cores waiting to see what Intel do is not the way to go, in that they are back to reacting to Intel. Even if its better they will have lost a big chunk of the initiative.

 

[4K8KW10]

Yeah, i agree with this and @Troezar AMD need to bring thier improved cores out as soon as they are ready, its about mindshare and denying Intel sales, sitting on thier cores waiting to see what Intel do is not the way to go, in that they are back to reacting to Intel. Even if its better they will have lost a big chunk of the initiative.

It isn't really so straightforward. If AMD does have already around 100% of the PC sales at the rainforest, no matter how it improves its products, the effect of diminishing returns will strike back.
So, the enthusiasts are already won. What AMD needs to do now is to focus on heavy and difficult negotiations with the OEMs in order to win the mindset there.

And keep the dominating products in reserve, as a backup plan if things from intel become somewhat more competitive. Which is highly unlikely given intel's lack of competence and wrong, unethical procedures, strategies, tactics, etc.

intel's mission from the startup is screwed up, so the base of the corp is in floating sands...

 

[humbug]

It isn't really so straightforward. If AMD does have already around 100% of the PC sales at the rainforest, no matter how it improves its products, the effect of diminishing returns will strike back.
So, the enthusiasts are already won. What AMD needs to do now is to focus on heavy and difficult negotiations with the OEMs in order to win the mindset there.

And keep the dominating products in reserve, as a backup plan if things from intel become somewhat more competitive. Which is highly unlikely given intel's lack of competence and wrong, unethical procedures, strategies, tactics, etc.

intel's mission from the startup is screwed up, so the base of the corp is in floating sands...

AMD don't have "around 100% of the PC sales at the rainforest" they consistently fill out the top 12 best-sellers, occasionally an Intel CPU or two creeps back in before being spotted and booted right back out again but Intel still sell CPU's there, just nothing like as many as AMD. at a guess AMD probably have about 80% to 90% of rainforest sales, which ties in with the other one who published sales figures.

On Laptops, AMD now have Zen 2 cores for Laptops and the few that i have seen people compare to Ice Lake it doesn't look like Ice Lake is actually any better than Zen 2.

AMD have over 100 Zen 2 designs, All of them proper High Quality Laptops, none of this "oh its AMD so its budget" some of them are exclusive to Ryzen.

Its early days but AMD are now going toe to toe with Intel in OEMs and i think this time OEMs will push them, not just sitting in a back room just in case some idiot wants an AMD Laptop.

 

[Freddie1980]

AMD needs to throw everything they got, including the kitchen sink at Intel because they are fighting a big giant with massive cash reserves so they simply cannot afford to take it easy.

AMD doesn't need to worry about Intel so long as they can there products at near parity (in terms of performance) they will do just fine but growth will always be stunted by their reliance on producing chips for the consoles.

 

[humbug]

I suppose as 4K8K said if AMD are already selling close to every CPU bought retail there really isn't a lot more they can do, that's not going to change until Intel brings something more competitive to market.

Maybe AMD in retail at least have got as far as its possible to get, for now. As i said they are now focusing on OEMs, 2020 is going to be all about OEMs.

Can we have some attention for discrete GPU's too? AMD?

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Isn't that a good thing, if performance is increased so much in 12 months that you want to get something better?

I mean Intel launched all of these within the about a year of each other, 2600k, 3770k, 4770k, 4790k, skipped a year due to failed Broadwell range, 6700K, 7700K, 8700K, etc.

There issue was there wasn't much of a difference so the enthusiast had nothing to do other than twiddle thumbs, until Ryzen arrived in 2016 and then the 8700K.

I can see your point here yeah, but if I was someone who just dropped a reasonable chunk on say a 3900x, I wouldnt want it to become out of date so soon as when the 4900x releases within a year. It would be better for me if the 4900x takes longer to come out.

 

[Journey]

I can see your point here yeah, but if I was someone who just dropped a reasonable chunk on say a 3900x, I wouldnt want it to become out of date so soon as when the 4900x releases within a year. It would be better for me if the 4900x takes longer to come out.

Why would it be out of date? If you mean it would be worth less, and not as fast as the very newest model, then of course but you clearly didn't grow up in the golden era of CPU's where every 6 months something newer, better, faster, would be along to usurp your new shiny and expensive CPU. Didn't stop me being enthused about the products coming out though, and looking forward to what was coming next and planning an upgrade accordingly.

 

[LePhuronn]

but growth will always be stunted by their reliance on producing chips for the consoles

Non-issue.

AMD are changing manufacturing process every year as their new designs dictate. Zen 2 is 7nm, Zen 3 is 7nm EUV/6nm (which frees up 7nm production), Zen 4 is 5nm (which frees up 7nm EUV production). Since the consoles are Zen 2 based, it stands to reason they're on current 7nm and will continue to be so well after the CPUs move on. Even if the consoles are actually built on 7nm EUV, that's only a year before AMD move onto 5nm anyway. Yes, APUs are always a generation and process node behind, but will only share the wafer pot with consoles for a year.

This is why I think we've not had Big-Ass Navi just yet because 7nm production is focussed on EPYC Rome and Ryzen 3000, which makes far more money than a halo GPU ever will; once Milan is underway on 7nm EUV we may well get the big RDNA 1 cards because 7nm production has been freed up to support it.

It's all about balancing production capacity at the end of the day, and the consoles just aren't going to be on the same manufacturing node as CPUs for very long, if at all.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Why would it be out of date? If you mean it would be worth less, and not as fast as the very newest model, then of course but you clearly didn't grow up in the golden era of CPU's where every 6 months something newer, better, faster, would be along to usurp your new shiny and expensive CPU. Didn't stop me being enthused about the products coming out though, and looking forward to what was coming next and planning an upgrade accordingly.

Yeah this is what i meant by out of date.

Oh dont get me wrong, im still very enthused about the latest products, its just a bit of a bummer from some people's point of view when something better has come out making yours not worth as much and not as good.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Non-issue.

AMD are changing manufacturing process every year as their new designs dictate. Zen 2 is 7nm, Zen 3 is 7nm EUV/6nm (which frees up 7nm production), Zen 4 is 5nm (which frees up 7nm EUV production). Since the consoles are Zen 2 based, it stands to reason they're on current 7nm and will continue to be so well after the CPUs move on. Even if the consoles are actually built on 7nm EUV, that's only a year before AMD move onto 5nm anyway. Yes, APUs are always a generation and process node behind, but will only share the wafer pot with consoles for a year.

This is why I think we've not had Big-Ass Navi just yet because 7nm production is focussed on EPYC Rome and Ryzen 3000, which makes far more money than a halo GPU ever will; once Milan is underway on 7nm EUV we may well get the big RDNA 1 cards because 7nm production has been freed up to support it.

Wait what.

7nm+ is actually 6nm???

 

[LePhuronn]

Wait what.

7nm+ is actually 6nm???

The names are interchangable. I don't know if TSMC are actually sticking with "6nm" but at some point 7nm EUV was also called 6nm. Nomenclature aside, the point stands: 7nm and 7nm EUV are separate processes, if you're building something on 7nm EUV then you're not using 7nm. Unless TSMC actually upgrade their 7nm kit to EUV, or can use the same kit for both (like GloFo can and did for 14nm and 12nm), Zen 3 production will free up capacity on what Zen 2 is using.

 

[humbug]

7nm EUV is 15% more dense so it can be called 6nm.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

The names are interchangable. I don't know if TSMC are actually sticking with "6nm" but at some point 7nm EUV was also called 6nm. Nomenclature aside, the point stands: 7nm and 7nm EUV are separate processes, if you're building something on 7nm EUV then you're not using 7nm. Unless TSMC actually upgrade their 7nm kit to EUV, or can use the same kit for both (like GloFo can and did for 14nm and 12nm), Zen 3 production will free up capacity on what Zen 2 is using.

Oh I had no idea it was 6nm in any way. I just assumed it was still 7nm, just made in a better way. Makes sense what you're saying though.

Makes sense as to how AMD are getting such big increases in IPC though, usually its a lot harder to get this level of performance increase year on year when its the same manufacturing process. But 7nm vs 6nm it makes sense as to how thats achievable.