I'd imagine CPU sales have suffered due to people not being able to buy GPUs especially AMD CPUs since they don't have onboard which is why we're now seeing price cuts to try shift the stock.
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*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***
Caporegime
£130 its not a bad board but its not for high end CPU's at high loads because it seems to be looked to Lower PL states, something Hardware Unboxed found with a lot of B560 boards, they have power limits in place to stop CPU's from drawing a lot of power, presumably to preserve the VRMs, protect them from Intel's insane power draw once they are fully loaded up.
So you get reviews like this, where they put a lot of praise on it for being inexpensive and apparently able to handle Intel's top of the line CPU's, even saying:
But then later in the review find this:
while both ASRock boards are significantly slower than the ASUS one, the only reason this B560 Steal Legend is better than the ASRock PG Velocita is because it is shockingly bad.
And then they conclude:
Well why do you think that is?
Because in fact it cannot handle:
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/147825-asrock-b560-steel-legend/
Tech Journalists, they can be so annoying
Yes its not bad for a £130, but a £130 B550 board can handle 5950X as well as any X570 board and you can overclock it on that B550 board.
Caporegime
Hardware Unboxed were moaning about non-AVX2 workloads,and then saying going into a BIOS was a big deal for something like a Core i5 11400F or Core i7 11700! Not the K series,the non-K series.Not even the Core i7 11900K. Then pointed out a crap £70 B560 with no heatsinks...was crap.
There were loads of cheaper B350/B450/B550 motherboards which had marginal heatsinks/no heatsinks which were not suitable for higher end AMD CPUs. You could run them but the VRMs ran hot and there could be throttling. But I seriously doubt you would want to run a Ryzen 9 3950X/5950X on a £70~£100 motherboard.
Yet,even with an AM4 motherboard you need to go into the BIOS to set DOCP/XMP,as most motherboards default to JEDEC spec. You need to go into the BIOS to set the boot drive. Then they contradict themselves when they go on about having to tune DDR4 RAM for Ryzen which means going into the BIOS. I don't know a single person who built their own PC,who has never gone into the motherboard BIOS.
Then they praised the higher end B560 motherboards for running out of spec,out of the box. This was criticised a few years back when Intel had MCE running out of the box,and reviewers complained it was distorting results. If someone bought one of those "higher end" B560 motherboards with a stock cooler that is not a good idea at all. Its like if PBO was active on all AMD motherboards,which would be a disaster if you were stuck on the stock cooler.
Also AFAIK,most people here don't really use AVX2 software do they(many are gamers)?? Even then I would question the point of a Core i7 11700K because the Ryzen 7 5800X is not much more. It has to be cheaper than it is really.
Considering most of the people buying a £100ish motherboard are more likely to not really want to go for a £300+ CPU. I think even on here most people who can afford a £500+ CPU seem to be going for nearly £200 motherboards or higher,with high end coolers.
These are the same reviewers who then made criticisms about many B350/B450 motherboards being marginal,etc. They were not so great with the highest end AM4 CPUs,but it was stupid anyway as no one is really going to spend £100 on a motherboard to buy a £400+ Ryzen 9.
Didn't you have a B350/B450 ASRock Pro4 also,and said that Hardware Unboxed/Gamersnexus unfairly criticised it as being poor or something despite it being fine?
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Caporegime
RE: AVX, depends what you want it for i guess, yes, as pure gaming rig its fine.
Yes, this is true, and i accept not every one is going to want to mess about in the BIOS, even if its as easy as two clicks of the mouse.
Yea, but you can save yourself a chunk of cash, there isn't anything usful that my £160 B550 can't do that its £240 X570 equivalent can't, i don't need more than one PCIe4 NVMe or GPU, it even has the exact same VRM.
My ASRock Pro 4 probably couldn't handle anything more than the Ryzen 3600 that was in it, i mean it did that quite well but in higensight looking at it, i still have it in its box stored somewhere, its a bit crap, especially when you compares it to my Gigabyte B550 which is an entire world different, beautiful build quality and very high quality VRMs.
Yup, i still maintain HUB was unfair to it, i mean it did the job, quite well, they said it wouldn't. and its still working perfectly, 3 years old when i swapped it out.
Hardware Unboxed sure can be over dramatic, point taken.
Caporegime
RE: AVX, depends what you want it for i guess, yes, as pure gaming rig its fine.
Yes, this is true, and i accept not every one is going to want to mess about in the BIOS, even if its as easy as two clicks of the mouse.
Yea, but you can save yourself a chunk of cash, there isn't anything usful that my £160 B550 can't do that its £240 X570 equivalent can't, i don't need more than one PCIe4 NVMe or GPU, it even has the exact same VRM.
My ASRock Pro 4 probably couldn't handle anything more than the Ryzen 3600 that was in it, i mean it did that quite well but in higensight looking at it, i still have it in its box stored somewhere, its a bit crap, especially when you compares it to my Gigabyte B550 which is an entire world different, beautiful build quality and very high quality VRMs.
Yup, i still maintain HUB was unfair to it, i mean it did the job, quite well, they said it wouldn't. and its still working perfectly, 3 years old when i swapped it out.
Hardware Unboxed sure can be over dramatic, point taken.
TBH,the Core i7 11700K is a bit pointless at its price. It really needs to be £300 at most,not £30 cheaper than a Ryzen 7 5800X. The extra cooling costs don't make it cheaper. Plus the Core i7 10700KF is significantly cheaper too.
What I didn't like is that they were saying the higher end B560 motherboards running out of spec was good,because it was convenient for users. Then criticising lower end B560 motherboards which could do the same,but were locked out of the box to the official spec. But you had to go into the BIOS to "unlock" the TDP limits which is really overclocking. I really don't understand how a motherboard breaking official spec of a 65W TDP CPU out of the box,is a good thing. Surely,if you don't know what a BIOS is,then its most likely you will be using a stock cooler and running the RAM at JEDEC settings which would be subpar. Plus I don't like the fact many of these review sites don't use air coolers during their tests as these do contribute to some degree of VRM cooling. They need to have data points for both. Its why I use a Noctua L12S in my mini-ITX system.
They are a good review channel/website but at times I really think they need to just reduce the amount of drama.
Caporegime
I would like to see the 5800X fall under £350, it really is a stonkingly good CPU and AMD have worked hard to get where they are, i think they should be rewarded for that, otherwise what's the point in doing it.
But, and it seem you don't really disagree with me on this, i don't think AMD should be chasing Intel to rock bottom, especially how Intel almost force you to spend as much on the motherboard as you do on their CPU's to get the most out of them, AMD absolutely do not do this and at the very least that should be acknowledged, if only to encourage them not to take up the same ideas.
Caporegime
I would like to see the 5800X fall under £350, it really is a stonkingly good CPU and AMD have worked hard to get where they are, i think they should be rewarded for that, otherwise what's the point in doing it.
But, and it seem you don't really disagree with me on this, i don't think AMD should be chasing Intel to rock bottom, especially how Intel almost force you to spend as much on the motherboard as you do on their CPU's to get the most out of them, AMD absolutely do not do this and at the very least that should be acknowledged, if only to encourage them not to take up the same ideas.
TBF,the only reason any of use talk about Intel is because the Ryzen 5 3600 is a bit long in the tooth after 2 years,and the new 7NM APUs are still OEM jobbies. Its a shame AMD has to also launch consoles,exactly at the same time,they finally got their act together with both CPU and GPU. I suspect if AMD had more supply,we would be seeing more of an entire stack by now. Its annoying AMD GPUs are as rare as hen's teeth at close to RRP!
Caporegime
Yea, agreed on all fronts. I think once AMD get access to 6nm/5nm things will get a lot better.
It is a shame because Zen 2 said AMD are back again, that this was no fluke, now that we have your attention again watch Zen 3 clean up.... If they didn't have to allocate most of their capacity to consoles Zen 3 really could have cleaned house.
Associate
^^^ Seems a messy top IHS design.
Associate
As someone says on the linked article comments, imagine trying to clean paste off that design ! However, it'll be what it'll be. Lets be honest, its out of sight when built.
I agree with the cooler mounting though ... would make something a lot simpler.
I agree with the cooler mounting though ... would make something a lot simpler.
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It was talked about. A unified socket and support for a single socket. IIRC Intel pulled out of the idea. Maybe because they knew the Spectre, zombie load and Meltdown cockupwas pending.
Can't see the IHS being like that TBH as it will cost more to make over a normal square without indents.
A few new Zen 4 leaks:
https://www.computerbase.de/2021-08...greiche-details-zu-amds-naechster-server-cpu/
(https://translate.google.ca/transla...greiche-details-zu-amds-naechster-server-cpu/)
These are based on some documents Gigabyte "lost" (hacked or someone managed to get their hands on them):
https://cybernews.com/news/gigabyte-amd-intel-confidential-data-leaked-online/
Looks like the CCD remains 8 core, but the max EPYC SP5 version will use 12 instead of 8 of them so 96 cores up from 64 before.
CCD is meant to be around 72mm² at 5nm. So almost the same size but obviously 5nm is denser. (If those nm figures meant anything 7^2 is 49 and 5^2 is 25, so nearly twice as dense. IF those nm figures mean anything.)
AVX 512 and 12 channel memory.
This is all based on Twitter leaks by Yuko Yoshida
https://twitter.com/KittyYYuko
https://www.computerbase.de/2021-08...greiche-details-zu-amds-naechster-server-cpu/
(https://translate.google.ca/transla...greiche-details-zu-amds-naechster-server-cpu/)
These are based on some documents Gigabyte "lost" (hacked or someone managed to get their hands on them):
https://cybernews.com/news/gigabyte-amd-intel-confidential-data-leaked-online/
Looks like the CCD remains 8 core, but the max EPYC SP5 version will use 12 instead of 8 of them so 96 cores up from 64 before.
CCD is meant to be around 72mm² at 5nm. So almost the same size but obviously 5nm is denser. (If those nm figures meant anything 7^2 is 49 and 5^2 is 25, so nearly twice as dense. IF those nm figures mean anything.)
AVX 512 and 12 channel memory.
This is all based on Twitter leaks by Yuko Yoshida
https://twitter.com/KittyYYuko
...
With up to DDR5-5200.
AMD SP5 Platform, EPYC Genoa CPUs & Zen 4 Core Detailed In Gigabyte's Leaked Documents (wccftech.com)
And some new Threadrippers, maybe for another thread.
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 5000 CPUs Leaked: Up To 64 Zen 3 Cores, 280W TDP, TRX40 & WRX80 SKUs Detailed (wccftech.com)
It could have been better with more cores but it looks like AMD will focus on the margins and stagnation..
I guess DDR5-6400 is closer to the equivalent of DDR4-3200 though. So DDR5-5200 is probably more like what Zen1 EPYC had, so about equivalent to DDR4-2666.
Still it is 12 channels. No indication of whether the interlink gets quicker too but with more channels, more cores and PCIe 5.0 it seems likely.
The power overhead of the interlink is going to be huge though. Would be interesting to see what a monolith could do in the Workstation area just because of the power overhead - Cezanne isn't really that great an indication with it's 16MB cache.
Still it is 12 channels. No indication of whether the interlink gets quicker too but with more channels, more cores and PCIe 5.0 it seems likely.
The power overhead of the interlink is going to be huge though. Would be interesting to see what a monolith could do in the Workstation area just because of the power overhead - Cezanne isn't really that great an indication with it's 16MB cache.
The interlink Infinity Fabric operates at the same frequency as the DDR, so obviously it will get quicker.
The thing is that it will take a while until AMD gets that memory subsystem work as intended, historically AMD has always had problems in the implementation in a correct way of the new memory standards.
The thing is that it will take a while until AMD gets that memory subsystem work as intended, historically AMD has always had problems in the implementation in a correct way of the new memory standards.