AMD Zen 5 rumours

jigger · 15 Jul 2023 at 16:56

g67575 said:
No cut down cores/e-cores for Ryzen 8000 series desktop CPUs confirmed:

AMD Says It Won't Follow Intel's P-Core & E-Core Hybrid Approach, Talks Zen 5, x86S & More

AMD has said they won't be following Intel's approach to Hybrid cores and architectures and also talked about what to expect from Zen 5 CPUs.

wccftech.com

They say that the scheduling between larger and smaller cores can be tricky...

Max core count will be 16, still on track for 2024 release.

Might see e-core like cores used in lower power devices, maybe laptops? Seems appropriate.

You do know the AMD Zen and Zen C core is nothing like Intel’s Skylake Atom mashup?

Zen and Zen C are the same core it’s just an innovation to add more cores with less silicon.

humbug · 15 Jul 2023 at 17:46

That ^^^ they are the same cores just differently packaged to make them more dense.

jigger · 15 Jul 2023 at 20:55

humbug said:
That ^^^ they are the same cores just differently packaged to make them more dense.

It surprising how so many people think Zen C is some kind of mobile big little design.

humbug · 15 Jul 2023 at 21:00

jigger said:
It surprising how so many people think Zen C is some kind of mobile big little design.

Its tech journalists, they don't know what they are talking about but talk a lot...

g67575 · 16 Jul 2023 at 02:06

jigger said:
You do know the AMD Zen and Zen C core is nothing like Intel’s Skylake Atom mashup?

Zen and Zen C are the same core it’s just an innovation to add more cores with less silicon.

Never mentioned Zen 4C cores, they are essentially just shrunk down Zen 4 cores from what I've read.

I was just commenting that AMD is not going to follow Intel, and integrate E-cores (or similar) into their desktop CPUs.

Some people were speculating that they would use E-cores for Zen 5, I'm glad they decided against the idea.

Grim5 · 16 Jul 2023 at 06:00

g67575 said:
Never mentioned Zen 4C cores, they are essentially just shrunk down Zen 4 cores from what I've read.

I was just commenting that AMD is not going to follow Intel, and integrate E-cores (or similar) into their desktop CPUs.

Some people were speculating that they would use E-cores for Zen 5, I'm glad they decided against the idea.

Well they can't anyway apparently, because the guy from amd said the platform doesn't have enough bandwidth to support more than 16 cores anyway, so not having E cores isn't even choice, but at a fact of the system limitations. This is further made clear when one of the guy's main reasons for "choosing" not to have E cores is because Windows sucks at the thread scheduling and he specifically mentions Intel does fine but AMD doesn't want to make its own thread director and all of this after the guy acknowledged that E cores make sense and save power on laptops but again they won't happen because AMD doesn't want to create a software solution to fix threading issues and the platform cant support more cores anyway.

Bencher · 16 Jul 2023 at 09:42

So, another gen starting from 6 cores @ 300€. Great

humbug · 16 Jul 2023 at 12:09

Bencher said:
So, another gen starting from 6 cores @ 300€. Great

£220.

A 16 core 7950X is as fast in MT as a 24 core 13900K.

Bencher · 16 Jul 2023 at 12:37

humbug said:
£220.

A 16 core 7950X is as fast in MT as a 24 core 13900K.

You think it will launch at 220? Usually it's 300 for the 6core part, no?

An i5 is twice as fast as an R5, and with the way things are going on, even the i5 from 2021 will be faster than the 8600x in mt. That is nasty isn't it?

humbug · 16 Jul 2023 at 12:46

Bencher said:
You think it will launch at 220? Usually it's 300 for the 6core part, no?

An i5 is twice as fast as an R5, and with the way things are going on, even the i5 from 2021 will be faster than the 8600x in mt. That is nasty isn't it?

You have to go as low as the 13400 to get an i5 the same price as the R5 7600, its £10 more

The 13400 scores 1794 in R23
The 7600 scores 1868, +4%, not a huge difference, but the 7600 is also a good chunk faster than that in gaming.

jigger · 16 Jul 2023 at 12:55

Grim5 said:
Well they can't anyway apparently, because the guy from amd said the platform doesn't have enough bandwidth to support more than 16 cores anyway, so not having E cores isn't even choice, but at a fact of the system limitations. This is further made clear when one of the guy's main reasons for "choosing" not to have E cores is because Windows sucks at the thread scheduling and he specifically mentions Intel does fine but AMD doesn't want to make its own thread director and all of this after the guy acknowledged that E cores make sense and save power on laptops but again they won't happen because AMD doesn't want to create a software solution to fix threading issues and the platform cant support more cores anyway.

Zen scales down to 10watts. Big little maybe something to consider for an entry into the mobile phone market.

Bencher · 16 Jul 2023 at 13:11

humbug said:
You have to go as low as the 13400 to get an i5 the same price as the R5 7600, its £10 more

The 13400 scores 1794 in R23
The 7600 scores 1868, +4%, not a huge difference, but the 7600 is also a good chunk faster than that in gaming.

I think those are the ST speeds, not the MT. Anyways, I hope amd really fixes the mt performance in the 300-500 range, cause it lags a couple of generations behind

jigger · 16 Jul 2023 at 13:48

AMD could possibly start at 4 cores with Zen 5. though with the current lead, AMD could easily use Zen 3 (maybe even Zen 2) for some products and remain competitive. AMD could possibly expand across different nodes. It could be advantageous to go those routes.

Grim5 · 16 Jul 2023 at 14:51

Bencher said:
I think those are the ST speeds, not the MT. Anyways, I hope amd really fixes the mt performance in the 300-500 range, cause it lags a couple of generations behind

They are so far behind at the low end/entry level MT that there is no way to catch-up without adding more cores. The 8600x would need to be 8 cores, 8700x 10 cores

Bencher · 16 Jul 2023 at 14:55

Grim5 said:
They are so far behind at the low end/entry level MT that there is no way to catch-up without adding more cores. The 8600x would need to be 8 cores, 8700x 10 cores

Yeap, but that woould require a 12core ccd probably. Which is going to do wonders for the 3d chips.

jigger · 16 Jul 2023 at 15:01

Grim5 said:
They are so far behind at the low end/entry level MT that there is no way to catch-up without adding more cores. The 8600x would need to be 8 cores, 8700x 10 cores

AMD are right with Intel in MT with less cores already.

Freddie1980 · 17 Jul 2023 at 18:46

Bencher said:
So, another gen starting from 6 cores @ 300€. Great

Bencher by name Bencher by nature. How did you manage to get yourself suspended so quickly after your previous suspension just finished?!?

Early rumours on this chip look promising in terms of IPC, hopefully AMD won't kneecap it by throttling the power budget.

jigger · 17 Jul 2023 at 19:48

Freddie1980 said:
Bencher by name Bencher by nature. How did you manage to get yourself suspended so quickly after your previous suspension just finished?!?

Early rumours on this chip look promising in terms of IPC, hopefully AMD won't kneecap it by throttling the power budget.

Yeah, give hardcore guys something play with. Maybe a solder pad we can bridge under the IHS to get a few more watts. Or pair of traces we can grind away on the PCB. Warranty voided, but fun to be had.

cliffy · 17 Jul 2023 at 21:13

So extremely early leaks say a possible regression in clock speeds for arrow lake and a win for Zen 5. It was said a while ago on here that AMD would win out over all for a few years to come, looks liek that may be contiuning.

Zarax · 18 Jul 2023 at 05:44

TSMC yelds are underwhelming for N3 so far, Zen 5 might be delayed and the might get a Zen 4+ instead.