Caporegime
Its a side effect rather than the focus, the focus is more cores in the same area.
Its designed for hyperscalers.
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AMD Zen 5 rumours
- Thread starter Grim5
- Start date
Its designed for hyperscalers.
Caporegime
The thing to remember is this.
Efficiency isn't power consumption, its power consumption for a given workload over time, people made this mistake when they challenged Steve Burke to undervolt Intel CPU's and put them up against AMD's CPU to show they are in fact not "more efficient" Which Steve did, AMD's CPU's still did more work per watt than Intel's CPU's, this with AMD's CPU's untouched, to which Steve made the point AMD's CPU's can also be undervolted, so shut up!
The c core use less power because they don't clock as high, so less volts, but given that they also don't do the same amount of work as the standard cores.
And here is the thing about modern cores, they will only use as much power as they need for a given workload, i know the cores in my 5800X will scale anything from 0.002 watts to 12 watts, if its only doing "light background tasks" the cores will only use so much power as it needs to do that, the CPU does not need to be an older generation smaller core to save power on these light tasks, your big core will do that because they simply will not burn more power than they need to.
In fact i would argue that AMD full fat Zen 4 cores are more efficient at these tasks than Intel 14'th Gen little cores simply by virtue that they are newer more advanced cores, i can say that with confidence because no matter what workload, light work, heavy work or idle AMD's all big core Laptop's always win the battery longevity tests with the same size KW/h battery.
I repeat....
Efficiency isn't power consumption, its power consumption for a given workload over time, people made this mistake when they challenged Steve Burke to undervolt Intel CPU's and put them up against AMD's CPU to show they are in fact not "more efficient" Which Steve did, AMD's CPU's still did more work per watt than Intel's CPU's, this with AMD's CPU's untouched, to which Steve made the point AMD's CPU's can also be undervolted, so shut up!
The c core use less power because they don't clock as high, so less volts, but given that they also don't do the same amount of work as the standard cores.
And here is the thing about modern cores, they will only use as much power as they need for a given workload, i know the cores in my 5800X will scale anything from 0.002 watts to 12 watts, if its only doing "light background tasks" the cores will only use so much power as it needs to do that, the CPU does not need to be an older generation smaller core to save power on these light tasks, your big core will do that because they simply will not burn more power than they need to.
In fact i would argue that AMD full fat Zen 4 cores are more efficient at these tasks than Intel 14'th Gen little cores simply by virtue that they are newer more advanced cores, i can say that with confidence because no matter what workload, light work, heavy work or idle AMD's all big core Laptop's always win the battery longevity tests with the same size KW/h battery.
I repeat....
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Soldato
One part when say 4 little cores that are super efficient at low load is when just browsing online with PC or using word where intel CPU are better compared to AMD because the idle min is better due to the design.
So if AMD can get that power usage down by utilising 4 small cores that all fine as long as they keep the 16+ big cores as such too.
Although do believe this is more the chipset issue so maybe need to look at how to do that than the chip themselves.
So if AMD can get that power usage down by utilising 4 small cores that all fine as long as they keep the 16+ big cores as such too.
Although do believe this is more the chipset issue so maybe need to look at how to do that than the chip themselves.
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Caporegime
Yes people making this point pointing at Desktop chips like the 7950X which has a minimum idle power consumption of 10 watts +, because the IO is using that.
The APU's don't have that, same cores, but no IO die.
Caporegime
I should add that 10 watts is just about the loaded power consumption of the CPU + iGPU in the Steam Deck
Soldato
The 7950x isn't 10watt though. Eco mode is showing people's average idle around 25-30w. That is quite high relative and more than a 13900k idles below 10w.
When using Google for internet exploring the Intel CPU uses less power still than AMD does idle at around 15w. So yeah all in it would still be good to have AMD reduce power when doing such light tasks.
Caporegime
Dunno mate, literally just randomly taken now, with 6 Chrome tabs, Spotify playing ABBA Dancing Queen, Thunderbird Email Client open and i'm in the Discord Voice Channel.
What's that about 12 watts? less than 2 for the CPU.
I haven't even tweeked it, updated my BIOS last night and need to reapply my settings.
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Soldato
I didn't know your 5800x was a 7950x suddenly though. You only have to Google 7950x to see multiple reviews showing idle is up around 25-30w.Dunno mate, literally just randomly taken now, with 6 Chrome tabs, Spotify playing ABBA Dancing Queen, Thunderbird Email Client open and i'm in the Discord Voice Channel.
What's that about 12 watts? less than 2 for the CPU.
Note my 5950x idles at best at 28w no matter what I do with it.
Caporegime
Admittedly i don't own a Ryzen 700 series, i would not have expected the idle or low power state to double and more over my older generation.
I googled it and found an Ars Techica claiming the idle power consumption is 20 to 30 watts..... yes that is very very high, in the same line they make the point that the 13900K Idles at below 10 watts, they also go on to say that this is better than the previous generation, IE the 5000 series, so my CPU is supposed to idle at what, 40 -50 Watts? This is where i start to get a little suspect of Ars Technica. That's half my MT Cinebench run.
I've done a lot of tweaking to this CPU over the years using HWInfo64 to monitor voltages, Temperatures and power consumption to see the effect of my tweaking, the screenshot i put up is what i expected, its also running at 33c with all my fans in a 0 RPM state, including the CPU cooler.
I might have a good chip, but i don't see how that makes a difference from about 10 to 40 or more?
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My 7950x using ECO 65W with iGPU disabled, stock RAM (4800) and power plan = power saver doing absolutely nothing can be as low as ~16W. The average is probably 20-25W though and setting EXPO bumps it up to 25-35W idle. AMD will add E-Cores, they will probably be the same cores but designed for higher density and lower power. It does not make sense to have nothing but high-power cores as 90% of threads don’t need them. Anything that reduces power is a good thing.
It's PPT you should be looking at for total CPU power consumption, 20% of 142w is 28.4w which looks normal for a 5800x under low load.Dunno mate, literally just randomly taken now, with 6 Chrome tabs, Spotify playing ABBA Dancing Queen, Thunderbird Email Client open and i'm in the Discord Voice Channel.
What's that about 12 watts? less than 2 for the CPU.
I haven't even tweeked it, updated my BIOS last night and need to reapply my settings.
Caporegime
Dunno mate, literally just randomly taken now, with 6 Chrome tabs, Spotify playing ABBA Dancing Queen, Thunderbird Email Client open and i'm in the Discord Voice Channel.
What's that about 12 watts? less than 2 for the CPU.
I haven't even tweeked it, updated my BIOS last night and need to reapply my settings.
Associate
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Do we expect Zen5 Desktop CPU's on AM5 to sport a 1st/2nd Gen Xilinx NPU, as is the case with Hawkpoint/Strixpoint?
And if yes, would we expect this to be integrated into each CCD, or the IOD?
And if yes, would we expect this to be integrated into each CCD, or the IOD?
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Caporegime
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Soldato
I purposefully ignored that part. It was too much to deal with all at once haha.
Caporegime
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I'm still not sure if I'm going to wait until the Zen 5 CPUs and next generation of GPUs are out before I build my new machine.
I'm tempted to just go Balls To The Wall with current gen components and get a 7950X3D and a 4090.
But the Zen 5 CPUs are allegedly in mass production according to rumour, so that could be a April or May release.
But AMD will probably hold back the big guns until later, releasing the Zen 5 8600X/9600X, 8700X/9700X first.
I think they did this with Zen 4, didn't they? I can't remember now.
I'm tempted to just go Balls To The Wall with current gen components and get a 7950X3D and a 4090.
But the Zen 5 CPUs are allegedly in mass production according to rumour, so that could be a April or May release.
But AMD will probably hold back the big guns until later, releasing the Zen 5 8600X/9600X, 8700X/9700X first.
I think they did this with Zen 4, didn't they? I can't remember now.
No, they release 16 cores at the same time.
They made us wait(and probably will with 8xxx) for 3d parts(even more for 7800x3d, 7950x3d and 7900x3d released earlier. It was like:
7950/7900/7800/7600 ---few months--->7900x3d/7900x3d---few weeks--->7800x3d
they just release the x3d later
Associate
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Thanks for clearing that up for me, guys.
I'm going to have a SEVERE GPU bottleneck with my 1080 until the 50x0 GPUs are released though lol
I'm going to have a SEVERE GPU bottleneck with my 1080 until the 50x0 GPUs are released though lol