*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[Davedree]

because GPU cores have nothing to do with CPU cores? different team building them?

Jim Keller hand builds CPU`s

What little do you know about avfs then lol.
Ermm carrizo excavator you know that apu, ermm it has cpu cores erm it has disabled avfs?
The sensor points and registers are there but the firnware is disabled. It uses predetermined p-states with predetermined voltage/frequency. Amd never programmed the Avfs.
The theory of avfs It is no different for a gpu so get over yourself.
The avfs is even a part of the polaris white paper publication.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...16.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHaJHl2c2dj8JGRArjUYBNJcSCLYA
The

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Its an A0 sample - if people bothered to even check the magazine scans which people have uploaded - they say the motherboard has an early AGESA version.

Apparently the card they used was a Fury X since a GTX1080 would not boot and AMD drivers tend to require decent single threaded performance.

The thing is this hints,especially with the games tested,AMD has close to BW-E level core performance. Because of the limited single core performance on AMD CPUs,this is why AMD tends to use Intel CPUs for their GPU tests,as they tend to do a bit worse overall on their own CPUs than Nvidia does.

If AMD is launching this at 3.4GHZ instead of the 3.1GHZ base clockspeed of this sample,that is nearly 10% higher - so an 8C/16T Ryzen is within spitting distance of a Core i7 6900K even in lightly threaded games using an AMD graphics card.

OFC,the main concern is what any 4C/8T Ryzen chips run at for normal clockspeeds,so that is more the unknown. We will need to wait and see on that one.

I expect Intel will have the clockspeed edge,but Intel also charges like £90 to £100 if you want HT over a Core i5 6600K,so if AMD can price their 4C/8T Ryzen at that price-point it should be OK I suspect.

 

[FoxEye]

I expect Intel will have the clockspeed edge,but Intel also charges like £90 to £100 if you want HT over a Core i5 6600K,so if AMD can price their 4C/8T Ryzen at that price-point it should be OK I suspect.

A 4C/8T Zen chip will cost more than an Intel i5 4c/4t. Almost guaranteed

I think people are expecting AMD to price these significantly less than Intel for the same perf, and will be disappointed. Especially if AMD genuinely draws less power for the same perf, which they will push heavily as a selling point - and a reason not to charge too much less.

I can see AMD 4c/8t at £250 min (i5 6600 is £230 here at OcUK), and 6c/12t at £400 or thereabouts.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A 4C/8T Zen chip will cost more than an Intel i5 4c/4t. Almost guaranteed

I think people are expecting AMD to price these significantly less than Intel for the same perf, and will be disappointed. Especially if AMD genuinely draws less power for the same perf, which they will push heavily as a selling point - and a reason not to charge too much less.

I can see AMD 4c/8t at £250 min (i5 6600 is £230 here at OcUK), and 6c/12t at £400 or thereabouts.

Yeah,but that is still £70 to £80 less than a Core i7 6700K!!

Plus at least AMD includes a decent stock cooler,which is around the same level of the £20 to £30 ones according to reviews. Intel does not bother including one.

Intel excessively segregating their platforms has kind of given AMD a chance.

Plus,LMAO at that £170 Core i3.

 

[FoxEye]

Sure, but being cheaper than Intel means so little today.

From a tech enthusiasts point of view, the lack of real perf upgrades, and the spiralling cost, is very disappointing.

If you're a huge AMD fan it's good news, if you only care about tech it's sad to see.

e: Plus if AMD get themselves back into the game by charging every so slightly less than Intel's LOL prices, then they aren't suddenly going to feel charitable in a few years time, reverting to the era of price wars. Both companies will be content I expect to keep charging ludicrous amounts, with nV and AMD pushing up GPU prices at the same time.

I fully expect a large number of people to be priced out of PC gaming in the years to come.

 

[SiDeards73]

Seems it of negativity here still, mostly from high end Intel users

I can't wait to see the 6/12 and 4/8 versions as those should be the better gaming ones. The 8/16 is going to be nice but I'm not so sure it's going to be the better gaming choice, think that will be the 6/12 or 4/8

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sure, but being cheaper than Intel means so little today.

From a tech enthusiasts point of view, the lack of real perf upgrades, and the spiralling cost, is very disappointing.

If you're a huge AMD fan it's good news, if you only care about tech it's sad to see.

It means everything - cheaper than Intel or being faster than Intel at the same price is what AMD did during the Athlon,Athlon XP and Athlon 64 days.

If you are a fan of progression in the CPU space,Ryzen is only good,and on certain US forums,you can see the people moaning the most have recently just upgraded to BW-E or Skylake,or are the sort of people who replaced a Core i7 6700K with a Core i7 7700K!

If you want to moan - moan at Intel.

Intel has made sure,that even that Core i3 K series won't have a stock cooler,if you want 6 cores,you need to buy a platform with motherboards starting at £180+ and also you won't get a stock cooler too on the best models,even if you don't overclock.

AM4 is one platform supporting everything from APUs to 8C CPUs,and all their unlocked chips will come with a Wraith cooler(which is the best stock cooler ever made it appears) and what 8 Pack has hinted is that the 8C/16T Ryzen will come with an AIO water cooler.

So most likely cheaper prices,one platform from 4C to 8C,decent coolers,significantly cheaper motherboards for the 6C and 8C chips - that is progression and a move away from Intel basically try to charge for every small thing and making sure they milk enthusiasts for every thing.

Like I said the Intel CEO said Ryzen will be disruptive for them,and apparently they will manage it with 10NM products.

Seems it of negativity here still, mostly from high end Intel users

I can't wait to see the 6/12 and 4/8 versions as those should be the better gaming ones. The 8/16 is going to be nice but I'm not so sure it's going to be the better gaming choice, think that will be the 6/12 or 4/8

OFC,they will - Ryzen will cause the secondhand values of their CPUs to go down,so unless Intel drops prices a lot,they will be paying more for their next Intel upgrade or might have to consider AMD.

They also know,that new system builders,can also now have an upgrade path to 6C and 8C CPUs,from even a 4C model,which means the exclusivity of 6C and 8C models will be far less.

Its one thing having to ditch your motherboard,etc to get a 6C CPU,but if you can do it on the same platform it might be more tempting down the line.

Even Intel is trying to introduce 6 core CPUs in 2018 on its socket 1151 successor.

Good timing,eh??

 

[FoxEye]

LOL, I'm not worried about the 2nd hand value of my 2500k, which I bought for £120 brand new

The 2500k will be my personal benchmark against which these Zen chips will be measured. Will the doubling in price from £120 to £250+ be worth the expected perf upgrade? I'll need a new mobo too, of course.

For it to be worth it for me, I'll be wanting the £250 Zen chips to absolutely wipe the floor with my ancient 2500k.

But let's not kid ourselves, I'll be forced to upgrade regardless, as Z77+2500k is getting on a bit, is missing features found on new mobos (M.2, USB3.1, etc). And since I won't be giving another penny to Intel, I really don't have much in the way of choice

 

[RavenXXX2]

And since I won't be giving another penny to Intel, I really don't have much in the way of choice

Why is that?

 

[nashathedog]

I doubt you'll get much change out of £400 for a 6c/12t Zen.

I can live with that.

I fully expect a large number of people to be priced out of PC gaming in the years to come.

It looks like it's going that way.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

LOL, I'm not worried about the 2nd hand value of my 2500k, which I bought for £120 brand new

The 2500k will be my personal benchmark against which these Zen chips will be measured. Will the doubling in price from £120 to £250+ be worth the expected perf upgrade? I'll need a new mobo too, of course.

For it to be worth it for me, I'll be wanting the £250 Zen chips to absolutely wipe the floor with my ancient 2500k.

But let's not kid ourselves, I'll be forced to upgrade regardless, as Z77+2500k is getting on a bit, is missing features found on new mobos (M.2, USB3.1, etc). And since I won't be giving another penny to Intel, I really don't have much in the way of choice

Not talking about you - I am talking about the US forums,as the response by some of the people on some of them is really funny(especially when you look at some of the other threads they posted in). They seem almost hopeful that Ryzen IPC is not near Broadwell for some reason.

Even I thought more SB or IB level,so these results have me really shocked TBH!!

I have a Xeon E3 1230 V2 which cost me just over £100 which was virtually new,but I got a bargain and I am a SFF PC fanboi,so for me AMD needs to have reasonable AM4 mini-ITX motherboards which can take a 4C/8T Ryzen CPU or APU. I almost got a 95W TDP Phenom II X6 at one point,but AM3 mini-ITX motherboards were hard to get hold off.

Personally as long as the pound does not crash anymore,a £230 to £250 4C/8T Zen CPU or APU with that Wraith cooler on a mini-ITX motherboard would work fine for me. Since Ryzen is an SOC,it probably has enough onboard connectivity for me,so I probably don't need that high end a motherboard either IMHO OFC.

 

[Harlequin]

What little do you know about avfs then lol.
Ermm carrizo excavator you know that apu, ermm it has cpu cores erm it has disabled avfs?
The sensor points and registers are there but the firnware is disabled. It uses predetermined p-states with predetermined voltage/frequency. Amd never programmed the Avfs.
The theory of avfs It is no different for a gpu so get over yourself.
The avfs is even a part of the polaris white paper publication.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...16.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHaJHl2c2dj8JGRArjUYBNJcSCLYA
The

citation on anything you have claimed over it not working.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Some more information from CPC:

https://twitter.com/InstLatX64/status/813539775944785921





SMT is bugged in the sample and so is part of the cache.

It makes me wonder how it will fare with these working properly and with Turbo working fine.

 

[~>Dg<~]

Seems it of negativity here still, mostly from high end Intel users

I can't wait to see the 6/12 and 4/8 versions as those should be the better gaming ones. The 8/16 is going to be nice but I'm not so sure it's going to be the better gaming choice, think that will be the 6/12 or 4/8

its mainly because more cores in the past did nothing much for amd.8 core amd cpus were slower than i5s.never mind i7s.

so as much as we hope for performance changes and prices lowering all we still seen is one half and half blender benchmark.

people are still guessing at prices . actual performance.we basically no nothing.

 

[pingu666]

LOL, I'm not worried about the 2nd hand value of my 2500k, which I bought for £120 brand new

The 2500k will be my personal benchmark against which these Zen chips will be measured. Will the doubling in price from £120 to £250+ be worth the expected perf upgrade? I'll need a new mobo too, of course.

For it to be worth it for me, I'll be wanting the £250 Zen chips to absolutely wipe the floor with my ancient 2500k.

But let's not kid ourselves, I'll be forced to upgrade regardless, as Z77+2500k is getting on a bit, is missing features found on new mobos (M.2, USB3.1, etc). And since I won't be giving another penny to Intel, I really don't have much in the way of choice

think you could get by with a usb 3.0 card at 10-20quid, and maybe a pci-e m.2 adapter in the 8/4x slot? depending on motherboard.

 

[FoxEye]

Why is that?

Because everything suggests that Intel are trying to milk us dry, whilst delivering as little progress as humanly possible.

Ie the stories about their new CEO laying off R&D guys, putting up prices, and not expecting AMD to have anything to worry about for years. Maximising profits and basically killing research. Does not want to deliver any kind of progress at all.

Then you've got £170 i3s... Yeah, no thanks, Intel.

 

[flopper]

Because everything suggests that Intel are trying to milk us dry, whilst delivering as little progress as humanly possible.

Ie the stories about their new CEO laying off R&D guys, putting up prices, and not expecting AMD to have anything to worry about for years. Maximising profits and basically killing research. Does not want to deliver any kind of progress at all.

Then you've got £170 i3s... Yeah, no thanks, Intel.

They play dirty and have always have.
amd is back however so awaiting for the stuff to hit the streets next year.

 

[Legend]

They play dirty and have always have.
amd is back however so awaiting for the stuff to hit the streets next year.

It's not dirty so much as laziness due to lack of competition... they have no need to do anything but the absolute bare minimum in order to bleed as much cash out of consumers as possible. They just funnel money in to marketing so consumers actually buy their BS! This is what happens when you have no one to actually challenge you in the marketplace, and it's why EVERYONE should be crossing their fingers AMD actually deliver with Ryzen, otherwise Intel are just going to carry on doing what they're doing.

 

[SiDeards73]

It's not dirty so much as laziness due to lack of competition... they have no need to do anything but the absolute bare minimum in order to bleed as much cash out of consumers as possible. They just funnel money in to marketing so consumers actually buy their BS! This is what happens when you have no one to actually challenge you in the marketplace, and it's why EVERYONE should be crossing their fingers AMD actually deliver with Ryzen, otherwise Intel are just going to carry on doing what they're doing.

+1 this so much.

I have £1600 sat waiting for Vega and Zen, originally it was 2k but I bought a 1070 as I couldn't wait any longer for Vega as my 290 was showing its age, besides the 1070 will get sold the minute Vega lands.


Was thinking to get the 8/16 RyZen but I'm now thinking that the 6/12 will be the smarter gaming choice, slap an EK AIO on it, new Mobo and 32gb ram, job done. With the change I will just buy a case and GPU and give my 4770k to my 2 boys.

Having competitive AMD means I can get more for my budget hopefully.

 

[Harlequin]

think you could get by with a usb 3.0 card at 10-20quid, and maybe a pci-e m.2 adapter in the 8/4x slot? depending on motherboard.

my Z68 board has usb 3 already , so that would leave M2 if I was inclined