*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[humbug]

AMD at their best back in the Athlon XP days Intel still outsold AMD by conical amounts and at much higher pricing.

You are right of course it is due to a lack of competition but AMD are not the magic bullet, AMD even better than Intel have so little effect on them it makes no difference to Intel.

Ultimately the only people who can change Intel's behaviour are consumers. judging by history its those consumers who need to change, Zen i think is the last chance to save whats left of the industry we claim to be enthusiasts of.

If Zen doesn't save AMD and there-in the only remaining chance of competition; its all over...

 

[Jokester]

AMD were the victim of illegal Intel anti-competitive actions though back then which didn't exactly help either (greatly reducing the availability of AMD based PCs from the big consumer suppliers).

 

[Martini1991]

If Intel had lowered their entry price points it'd make the AMD options irrelevant.

It's only intels price points that give AMD CPU'S any relevancy.

 

[ltron]

Funny you should say "DX12 was in development before we ever heard of Mantle" DX12 was not heard of before Mantle, other than "Will there ever be such a thing?" to which the answer from MS was "no"

When you are the Hardware vendor for your products at the very least you assist in the software for said hardware.
The XBox One didn't ship with its own API, instead it shipped with DX11, because MS didn't play ball AMD didn't give it to them, instead they released it forcing MS to accept AMD's terms, and...... the XBox One gets a new API, surprisingly.
AMD having achieved their objective with Mantle they gave it to the Khronos Group to provide MS with much needed competition.
The lack of that being the reason for MS arrogance in first place.

You're right, Humbug. Nvidia and Microsoft worded it very cleverly so people could infer that DX12 had been in development for 5 years.

On March 20 2014 they posted: "Our work with Microsoft on DirectX 12 began more than four years ago with discussions about reducing resource overhead. For the past year, NVIDIA has been working closely with the DirectX team to deliver a working design and implementation of DX12 at GDC." https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/. BF4 already had a working Mantle renderer: https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

Note the word discussions i.e. they had been talking to Microsoft for four years just like everyone else and getting nowhere.

 

[Davedree]

AMD at their best back in the Athlon XP days Intel still outsold AMD by conical amounts and at much higher pricing.

You are right of course it is due to a lack of competition but AMD are not the magic bullet, AMD even better than Intel have so little effect on them it makes no difference to Intel.

Ultimately the only people who can change Intel's behaviour are consumers. judging by history its those consumers who need to change, Zen i think is the last chance to save whats left of the industry we claim to be enthusiasts of.

Different world different market back then. even the average joes didn't mind having a big noisy tower in the front room or spare room. For a while now the pc market has been declining, whilst gaming has shown some growth.The average joe's don't need a ryzen pc or vega gpu. they're happy with their tablets, phones notebooks and consoles.

Pc's are going the way of hifi, and even more funny is how both intel and nvidia for the last couple of gens have sold frequency upscaled notebook chips onto the desktop at inflated mainstream prices. The lack of amd to compete with gp104 enabled nvidia to command the new tier of pricing we see now.

 

[humbug]

AMD were the victim of illegal Intel anti-competitive actions though back then which didn't exactly help either (greatly reducing the availability of AMD based PCs from the big consumer suppliers).

True, lets hope Intel restrain themselves this time because they could crush AMD in an instant by doing something like that again and it wouldn't mater if they got fined, the damage is done.

If Intel had lowered their entry price points it'd make the AMD options irrelevant.

It's only intels price points that give AMD CPU'S any relevancy.

Right, this is that Intel vs AMD mindshare, Intel have it, AMD? who are they, isn't all their stuff crap?

You're right, Humbug. Nvidia and Microsoft worded it very cleverly so people could infer that DX12 had been in development for 5 years.

On March 20 2014 they posted: "Our work with Microsoft on DirectX 12 began more than four years ago with discussions about reducing resource overhead. For the past year, NVIDIA has been working closely with the DirectX team to deliver a working design and implementation of DX12 at GDC." https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/. BF4 already had a working Mantle renderer: https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

Note the word discussions i.e. they had been talking to Microsoft for four years just like everyone else and getting nowhere.

Good insight.

 

[ubersonic]

GLnext went into development AFTER Mantle and DX12 as a result of those existing

Lol no, they had been planning/developing a successor to OGL 4.x for years, it was just that after Mantle they changed (I.E scrapped) their plans in favor of working with AMD and changed the name to Vulkan.

 

[SiDeards73]

Anyone got any thoughts on AIO's for the Zen CPU's? obviously we have not been told yet which will or wont provide adapters / brackets etc for them as yet, i quite like the look of that new NZXT Kraken thing, i liked the EK Predator one too but ive read a lot of concerning posts regarding issues with them leaking

What are peoples thoughts on cooling Zen? obviously people with existing loops will just add them i guess? those without Loops but intending to purchase Zen, are you looking at upgrading to a full loop? Sticking with Air? moving to an AIO? Just kinda interested in peoples thoughts, especially given how Zen will clock better under better cooling solutions apparently.

For me i currently have a Phanteks Air cooler and an Antec AIO For my 4770k (currently using the Antec) so i will probably just buy another AIO, looking at the NZXT one as i mentioned above.

 

[Bonjour]

Hoping for an EK Predator with Zen and Vega blocks.

 

[humbug]

Dunno about the brackets but i have been using This NZXT Kraken X31 for a couple of years, first on an FX-9590 and now on the 4690K, its a superb cooler and as far as i know there are no horror stories of Kraken coolers leaking, i would recommend them and buy again but don't bother with the software or with installing the variable speed pump into the USB thing, it also has the normal 3/4 pin, your CPU will love you for it.

 

[Martini1991]

Hopefully there's no waiting game for mounts.

 

[Legend]

100% custom for Ryzen IMO, but once you start watercooling it's hard to stop, so I am biased. I wouldn't touch the Predators right now what with all the leaks they're having. A top end air cooler is going to get pretty close in performance anyway. If you're going for the highest clocks and want ultimate performance, custom is the way to go... but it obviously comes at a cost. I'm sure we'll see mounts/brackets very quickly, and I am sure the likes of EK have them ready to go already.

 

[Bonjour]

I hadn't heard of the Predator leaks. I'll investigate, thanks.

Currently have a Fractal Kelvin 360, which has been excellent.

 

[Martini1991]

I'm custom.
But I've left mine for years.
Needs just redoing.

 

[xs2man]

I'll not be going for an epic overclocks, mostly because I'm just planning a daily driver PC with a lower spec Zen CPU. So was just gonna keep it on air. Hopefully a Noctua D15 or similar though.

 

[Relentless81]

I'm going to see what the wraith is like for a bit and then look into what Noctua, Be quiet and Scythe offer further down the line

 

[Harlequin]

https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/2015-gdc/Khronos-Vulkan-GDC_Mar15.pdf

mantle is the base of vulkan but they have expanded upon it

and

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8363/khronos-announces-next-generation-opengl-initiative

which was renamed as

http://www.develop-online.net/news/glnext-revealed-as-vulkan-graphics-api/0203867

Mantle definitely came first - DICE were programming with it in 2013 (BF4 with mantle was in the marketplace before DX12 announcement), whereas Direct3D 12 was announced in march 2014

https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2014/07/17/direct3d-overview-part-1-closer-to-the-metal

 

[humbug]

I couldn't go back to an air cooler now, i agree a £70 air cooler can do just as good a job as a £70 AIO but its having a huge lump of metal hanging off my motherboard that puts me off, they get in the way and they are disruptive to good airflow.

 

[~>Dg<~]

there is little point in big air coolers now.if you buy a decent branded aio with good warranty why even consider unless its potential water leak scare ?

 

[flopper]

there is little point in big air coolers now.if you buy a decent branded aio with good warranty why even consider unless its potential water leak scare ?

AIO isnt that good.
more moving parts, more risk for failure.
sis kid bought an aircooler as I told him, its the better option.
dropped the temp with 30c and could OC to 4ghz and have a better computer.