*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[StarShock]

I kind of feel like we might start moving away from cooling. As speed is getting harder and harder to come by and efficiency is becoming more and more the focus. I can totally see a few generations down the line having computers that and no faster than we have now, but they use less power and generate less heat. We've kind of already seen that in the latest generation of GPUs.

edit - Not that the latest gen of GPUs aren't faster, but they are more efficient and they have a fairly hard stable OC ceiling where throwing extra cooling at them doesn't have much effect on speed. at least not without modding the power delivery

 

[ubersonic]

Possibly read my full post instead.

I quoted your full post, and explained why it was wrong.

In short water>air/end

It's really not that simple, as I mentioned you can't get an AIO that will perform as well as the air cooler in my air rig unless you want to pay more or accept more noise.

I used to use AIOs a lot (still have an 8 year old H50 knocking about) but generally avoid them now in my non custom water rig because for the same money you can get an air cooler that performs as well, is quieter where it counts and can never fail catastrophically.

I can totally see a few generations down the line having computers that and no faster than we have now, but they use less power and generate less heat.

You mean like the last 5 years of Intel CPUs?

 

[Hagar]

This pic is with my old mobo and gfx card but my Fx9590 has never been so cool (except under custom water) 57C at full chat, stock frequencies with turbo.

Silverstone Heligon HE01 on low setting. I doubt that I will need this much cooling with Ryzen but you never know.

 

[jigger]

I quoted your full post, and explained why it was wrong.

You pointed out why you think it's wrong and quoted half my post.

 

[jigger]

I kind of feel like we might start moving away from cooling. As speed is getting harder and harder to come by and efficiency is becoming more and more the focus. I can totally see a few generations down the line having computers that and no faster than we have now, but they use less power and generate less heat. We've kind of already seen that in the latest generation of GPUs.

edit - Not that the latest gen of GPUs aren't faster, but they are more efficient and they have a fairly hard stable OC ceiling where throwing extra cooling at them doesn't have much effect on speed. at least not without modding the power delivery

It's come a point that we don't need chips to get more efficient though. Not for a desktop computer anyway.

 

[David Bisset]

Possibly read my full post instead. In short water>air/end

Closed loops are still air cooling just moving the heatsink. Reviews don't back up your claim either as AIOs mostly get beaten on temps and noise by air coolers at matching prices. Yes, full custom loop is cooler as it's got more surface area to dissipate the heat to the air but that's a whole lot more again.

 

[Martini1991]

AIO's bar the really high end aren't really better than air for temps.
It's surprising AIO's became popular given how crap they were initially.

 

[SiDeards73]

AIO's bar the really high end aren't really better than air for temps.
It's surprising AIO's became popular given how crap they were initially.

I think aesthetically they are better, they look neater, their performance is within the area of the top air coolers, plus you dont feel worried that your stressing the mobo with the weight of the cooler, only real worry is that they may leak, however i think most if not all AIO manufacturers cover damage to your components if their AIO leak?

 

[jigger]

Closed loops are still air cooling just moving the heatsink. Reviews don't back up your claim either as AIOs mostly get beaten on temps and noise by air coolers at matching prices. Yes, full custom loop is cooler as it's got more surface area to dissipate the heat to the air but that's a whole lot more again.

Most tests are done on a test bench so become pointless anyway.

 

[new boy]

Go custom loop or go home

Back to Zen, my hype levels are getting higher and higher despite me trying to keep them grounded. I really hope we have a 2 horse race at the enthusiast end of the market soon. Things have been so unbelievably boring these last few years since sandy bridge I'm looking forward to actually being able to have debates about which CPU people should buy instead of the just the current gen i5 / i7...

 

[ubersonic]

You pointed out why you think it's wrong and quoted half my post.

No I quoted the entire thing, I just double checked in case you had edited but no it's just a one line reply to my post. And like I said I pointed out what was wrong with it.

 

[Legend]

Yeah I'm hoping Ryzen will be something impressive and worth getting excited about. Kaby certainly isn't going to deliver, but we've known that for months. Still, it's not going to stop the hype and 5Ghz de-lidded CPU's being sold at huge premiums, but this is the world we live in!

 

[pete910]

Yeah I'm hoping Ryzen will be something impressive and worth getting excited about. Kaby certainly isn't going to deliver, but we've known that for months. Still, it's not going to stop the hype and 5Ghz de-lidded CPU's being sold at huge premiums, but this is the world we live in!

What get me is that, and lets be honest! why should you need to delid a CPU for it to cool to a respectable level.

Why cant they solder the damn things! Though don't know if zen will be. Don't recall previous AMD chips not been soldered

 

[new boy]

because it saves a dollar and doesn't effect 99% of users?

A dollar saved per chip is a **** ton of profit

 

[SiDeards73]

Zen is soldered

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

How much better? I'd take an extra couple of degrees of heat for silence.

+1, plenty of reviews out there show the high end air coolers are only a bit warmer than the much more pricey AIO's, while being a decent bit quieter.

 

[DragonQ]

After reading this thread I had a look at the ID-Cooling Frostflow 240L since it was touted as the best "affordable" AIO cooler on one website (Tom's Hardware I think) with excellent noise and cooling results. However, This review suggests it keeps temperatures 4 °C below my current air cooler, but is also 8-10 dB louder.

The 240L is also more expensive, but to be fair the NH-D14's replacement (the NH-D15) is about the same price.

 

[Legend]

After reading this thread I had a look at the ID-Cooling Frostflow 240L since it was touted as the best "affordable" AIO cooler on one website (Tom's Hardware I think) with excellent noise and cooling results. However, This review suggests it keeps temperatures 4 °C below my current air cooler, but is also 8-10 dB louder.

The 240L is also more expensive, but to be fair the NH-D14's replacement (the NH-D15) is about the same price.

The only way you are going to beat a top end air cooler such as the D15 is to go custom. AIOs are very cleverly marketed and people get suckered in all the time, but there is no real benefit other than the aesthetic. I totally get that though, and having a big hunk of cooler (and they are BIG) hanging off your mobo isn't what everyone wants. It dominates visually and if you're moving your system around a lot, I can see the concern... not that I've ever heard of one causing damage. You hear about AIOs leaking, so that has to be factored in. Custom loops aren't cheap, but a CPU only one is much cheaper (probably a £200 saving or thereabouts), and will offer better reliability and the ultimate in cooling and low noise performance... if done right of course. Yes it costs, but the best always does.

 

[StarShock]

depends on the case as well, my coolermaster elite 130 has only a tiny amount of space for a CPU cooler, but can fit a 120mm aio which is what I have and it does a good job for me

 

[Legend]

Yes that's true... given how big the top end air coolers are, not everyone can fit them, and RAM clearance can also be an issue with some, and clearance for the PCI-E socket on some mobos. There will certainly be those for whom an AIO will be the best option simply given the inability to fit a high performing air cooler.