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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

DragonQ said:
The 8 core version is not there to compete with the i7-7700K, no matter how much we'd love it to be in the same price bracket. I reckon the 6 core version will be in that range, and considering B350/X370 motherboards are likely to be cheaper than Z270 ones it should compete extremely well. Even if it can't quite reach the IPC or clock speeds, those extra cores and lower price should see the 4 and 6 core versions sell in bucket loads, especially as games more and more demand extra cores (be it virtual or real). It's not out of the question that the i5 range becomes redundant due to 4 core Ryzens, it all depends on the price and clock speed potential.
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This is pretty much what I've been thinking all along.

AMD 4c/8t vs Intel i5
AMD 6c/12t vs Intel 4c/8t i7
AMD 8c/16t vs higher end multi-core intels (i7 or however they are branded)

That makes more sens to me than the dream of 8c/16t AMD's at 4c/8t Intel prices. I just don't see that as even a remote possibility. Assuming they are close on performance to similar c/t intels.
 
xs2man said:
This is pretty much what I've been thinking all along.

AMD 4c/8t vs Intel i5
AMD 6c/12t vs Intel 4c/8t i7
AMD 8c/16t vs higher end multi-core intels (i7 or however they are branded)

That makes more sens to me than the dream of 8c/16t AMD's at 4c/8t Intel prices. I just don't see that as even a remote possibility. Assuming they are close on performance to similar c/t intels.
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I don't think AMD will line prices up with Intel at all. Any good business will look at the costs work out what what kind of margins they need and set the price off that number. Thats the only way to make the most of a product.
 
jigger said:
I don't think AMD will line prices up with Intel at all. Any good business will look at the costs work out what what kind of margins they need and set the price off that number. Thats the only way to make the most of a product.
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Bit simplistic. Wouldn't work for milk.

Probably wouldn't work for AMD either. What if those sums come out with a higher price than Intel? What if they had to charge more for a lower performing CPU?

Businesses don't sell in a vacuum. There are, usually, competitors.

Personally, I think they will absolutely use Intel's prices as a starting point. From there, they will add or subtract based on a number of factors, but they will certainly consider the opposition's pricing.
 
cheesyboy said:
Bit simplistic. Wouldn't work for milk.

Probably wouldn't work for AMD either. What if those sums come out with a higher price than Intel? What if they had to charge more for a lower performing CPU?

Businesses don't sell in a vacuum. There are, usually, competitors.

Personally, I think they will absolutely use Intel's prices as a starting point. From there, they will add or subtract based on a number of factors, but they will certainly consider the opposition's pricing.
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Then AMD will probably fail spectacularly :)

The dairy products industry is a little different to the semi conductor market. Some strategies will be the same, but those shelf life differences :p
 
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jigger said:
I don't think AMD will line prices up with Intel at all. Any good business will look at the costs work out what what kind of margins they need and set the price off that number. Thats the only way to make the most of a product.
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Not sure it works like that. Most of the cost comes from R&D and infrastructure. They spend a billion to get the first one and the rest cost like £20 each. Then it's just finding the right price point to sell enough to make a profit.
 
StarShock said:
Not sure it works like that. Most of the cost comes from R&D and infrastructure. They spend a billion to get the first one and the rest cost like £20 each. Then it's just finding the right price point to sell enough to make a profit.
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The CPU market is about shifting units at sustainable profits. It's not a niche market for luxury items. R and D usually carries ongoing costs that ramp to a point and then drop.
 
Apparently the new news on the grape vine courtesy of sweclockers forum and Dresdenboy is that Zen has ~55% greater IPC over Excavator now.

The last confirmed IPC increase was from an AMD engineer stating ~48% over Excavator in a tech talk about Zen.
 
Mauller said:
Apparently the new news on the grape vine courtesy of sweclockers forum and Dresdenboy is that Zen has ~55% greater IPC over Excavator now.

The last confirmed IPC increase was from an AMD engineer stating ~48% over Excavator in a tech talk about Zen.
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That puts it at least 70% higher IPC than Piledriver.
 
jigger said:
I don't think AMD will line prices up with Intel at all. Any good business will look at the costs work out what what kind of margins they need and set the price off that number. Thats the only way to make the most of a product.
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No good business looks at bottom line and ignores market value, not one. Considering the the value of your product in a competitive market, and the potential margin that value can achieve is the only way to make the most of a product.

I believe (and hope!) that AMD will do this right. As previously mentioned 90% of the performance at 70% of the price will turn a lot of heads, and I think that's roughly where they'll be.

They've invested much more intellligently in marketing, and they've made good use of youtube affiliations to push a positive message to the masses. Marking is the key difference between being seen as a cheaper, less desirable brand, and being the peoples champion of fair price to performance, and I'm very excited for their future.

Or, they could **** it up again :/
 
Cannard PC Hardware on twitter claiming "Ryzen 8C/16T F4 3.6/4.0 Engineering Sample Over 95W At The Moment. 6C/12T Just About 65W."
 
Mauller said:
Apparently the new news on the grape vine courtesy of sweclockers forum and Dresdenboy is that Zen has ~55% greater IPC over Excavator now.

The last confirmed IPC increase was from an AMD engineer stating ~48% over Excavator in a tech talk about Zen.
Click to expand...
I'll believe it when I see it. The 40% and 48% figures were straight from the horse's mouth, this one isn't. ;)
 
=XDC=FluphyBunny said:
The problem with the hype train is people get so carried away the cpu can do nothing but fail expectations.
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My expectation is another Bulldozer, and it's staying that way until it's on shelves and in home PCs and being benchmarked by actual people. If it turns out to be good, that's a nice surprise :)
 
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